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View Poll Results: Highly Challenging Vote • July 2013, Multiple Choice
The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner 5 23.81%
The History of Tom Jones, a Foundling by Henry Fielding 6 28.57%
The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra 6 28.57%
Paradise Lost by John Milton 5 23.81%
Histories by Herodotus 10 47.62%
On the Nature of Things by Lucretius 7 33.33%
Buddenbrooks by Thomas Mann 12 57.14%
Journey to the West by Wu Cheng'en 6 28.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2013, 01:53 AM   #46
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I suppose I have a slightly different perspective, although I do sympathize with the opinions voiced here (especially by our international friends). I don't mind the "occasional" paperbook or > $10 option. I participate in this club to be exposed to a wide variety of books that I wouldn't normally select on my own, and therefore I'm not looking for limitations to those options. I figure with the number of books we have selected that have been public domain, couponable, or library loanable that my total expenditure over two years has been quite low, especially compared to what I've gained from the stimulating discussions.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:18 AM   #47
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Besides the Gutenberg (German) version, I also can get hold of a Buddenbrooks DVD 2.25.00 hours. Does anyone know whether this is a good representation of the book.

I can read the book when I've finished The Swerve and some others (I'm rereading the philosophers), but I'll be going for a short holiday as well. And a few weeks of cycling in East Germany next month.

Well, I buy a lot of secondhand books, we do have a good offers from a site where individuals sell their books http://www.boekwinkeltjes.nl/ but the prices for ebooks in Europe are often outrageous.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:42 AM   #48
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Both p-books and e-books are very highly priced in Australia. It would be possible for me to buy a new copy of the new translation of Buddenbrooks, but the price is too high for me, especially for something I may or may not enjoy all that much.

It was different when I was working, but now I'm retired I have to think a bit more about where I spend my "entertainment dollar".
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:08 AM   #49
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I'd just like to repeat that the Wade-Porter translation is far from unreadable, and if those who aren't averse to reading pbooks can find a copy in a local library they might be pleasantly surprised. I know not everyone has a decent or local library.

I know when people were reading Homer and Virgil last year I thought it important to get a current translation rather than read 19th century efforts in the pubic domain, but Buddenbrooks, a 20th century novel with a 20th century translation, is a very different situation.

I've changed my position on this. When in the first flush of reaction it seemed that very few were going to be able to read the winner, I thought perhaps it should be reconsidered. But people are making their accomodations as would happen in any month and I'm personally ready to move on. This is a tough position to put sun surfer in and I don't think it's important enough for intervention or ultimately even fair to expect him to override a vote. Buddenbrooks won and while I didn't vote for it, I'm looking forward to reading it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:19 AM   #50
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I agree with Issybird that since the book won, it should remain the choice for the month. I think that eliminating a winning entry for the second place book would set a dangerous precedent.

Last edited by fantasyfan; 07-09-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:26 AM   #51
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That sounds sensible and I'm happy for those who can participate to go ahead with Buddenbrooks.

I agree with fantasyfan that it could be an undesirable precedent to disqualify a clear winner.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:01 AM   #52
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In my opinion the process of voting is quite clear. Most votes are for Buddenbrooks, and of course every one can say something about the price, availability and such.........after the voting. But that doesn't change a thing.

I will read Buddenbrooks and see the DVD. But I can't promise it will be finished this month.....as I'm crossing those high peaks of the Andes and afraid of heights, searching for manuscripts in Germany and disliking the writer, looking for a light in Greece and seeing what the Chinese peasants are up too...... etc.

Last edited by desertblues; 07-09-2013 at 10:03 AM. Reason: grammar............
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #53
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It sounds as if you need an express round-the-world ticket!
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:49 PM   #54
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Where to even begin? I was unexpectedly without internet access since Saturday, and I was hoping I wouldn't come back to a tie where people were waiting on me to start a tie-breaker poll. Though similar in a way, I wouldn't have ever expected coming back to this!

The answer to everything is very easy - Buddenbrooks won fair and square and it will stay the winner. There never would've been any doubt for me, and I'm glad many posters have come to a similar conclusion during the course of posts. Though I do wish I could've been here to answer immediately to clear up any doubt and let people get on with accessing a copy and reading.

As to availability, this has come up before and I've been very consistent - there are no availability rules in this club, and won't be while I'm still running it. However, people are free to vote however they want, and if they want to factor in e-book availability or price, that's up to them. I want to encourage people to be able to nominate what they want without worry. Half the fun of nominations is discovery itself.

With that said, being the person who nominated Buddenbrooks, I do feel badly for those of you who are having such a hard time accessing it! While I've nominated books that are expensive in the past, and books that are only available in pbook form in the past, I thought Buddenbrooks was generally available as an e-book. My go-to search to see if there's an e-book, Amazon, had turned one up. I don't know if I would've nominated it anyway if it hadn't. I remember when Mann's Magic Mountain was nominated awhile back, and, as someone mentioned upthread, it wasn't available at all in e-book form. I wasn't the one who nominated it then, but I was interested in it and I personally have no qualms about ordering a pbook and waiting for it to arrive; I've done it. However, I know that some do and as I'd nominated Ulysses too this month and it was a non-starter, I wanted to use my last nomination on something that I thought would generate more interest, which it did obviously, but if I'd known the availability problems beforehand I might have reconsidered how much interest the book might generate.

I hope some of you that may sit out because of availability difficulties reconsider if you're interested in the book. If you're worried about getting started late, I have a feeling with such a long work that this will be a long conversation, such as Conquest of the Incas and Middlemarch were. Personally, I'm only just about to get started on Fanny & Stella now and won't start Buddenbrooks until after.

I think the main thing I feel badly about is that there's an inequality in availability for the book. If I also had to order the pbook, I'd feel we were all in the same boat, but since I have access to the e-book I feel for those of you who don't. I love how international we are, but different members can have quite different experiences with availability and price for our selections. I also feel badly that many of you second-guessed your vote once looking into availability. I can't change the votes, so all I can say is that I hope that those of you who do read it enjoy it and get something out of it. The only Mann I've read so far is Death in Venice and I thought that was superb, so I'm very much looking forward to this.

The discussion thread will be up within a day.

Last edited by sun surfer; 07-09-2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason: this and that
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:50 PM   #55
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Please don't feel badly about it, sun surfer. Those of us who voted for it and then found we couldn't get it have only ourselves to blame!

I am still looking to see if I can track a copy down that won't blow the budget.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:38 PM   #56
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Agreed - definitely not sun surfer's fault.

Quote:
If you're worried about getting started late, I have a feeling with such a long work that this will be a long conversation, such as Conquest of the Incas and Middlemarch were.
That's what I was thinking. I might be able to track down a copy and given I had some books to read beforehand anyway, it gives me time to come up with something.

I certainly didn't vote for this book because I didn't want to read it. Thomas Mann is on "the list" for me. It's just a shame he's still expensive after all these years.

My other issue was that I failed to check how big the book was. My only exposure to Mann was through Death in Venice and I also own Tristan and Tonio Kröger. Apparently my misfiring synapses had delivered the message that Buddenbrooks would be of a smaller size. I mean it follows doesn't it? If an author writes a couple of smaller size stories, he couldn't possibly write a bigger novel.

Anyway - the hunt begins.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:13 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by paola View Post
i beg your pardon, that is ex VAT: the full price is £21.60
http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/...E9780307780959

pity one can't resell it, otherwise you you lucky ones could make a fortune
I was about to ask you where this version was until I finally noticed the link you provided (and edited to add it to the discussion thread). What I find so strange is that it is available there at Blackwell's as an ebook but at none of the more major ebook sellers. And the price is exorbitant, but I suppose a smaller academic seller can get away with charging it when they somehow seem to have a monopoly on the ebook version.

As you also mentioned, I saw the much cheaper Italian ebook version on Amazon UK, and I also noticed Spanish language ebook versions to buy not only in the UK but in Australia, the U.S. and Canada too. I find this strange as well, that any English translation has limited availability as an ebook in English-speaking countries, yet translations in so other languages are easily available in those same countries. It's all very strange, but perhaps it's something to do with the work possibly being translated more often in other languages, and longer ago, so it's easier to get ebook versions of those translations out there to buy, even in English-speaking countries.

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Originally Posted by Bookpossum View Post
Please don't feel badly about it, sun surfer. Those of us who voted for it and then found we couldn't get it have only ourselves to blame!

I am still looking to see if I can track a copy down that won't blow the budget.
I looked around for Australia pbooks while making the links for the discussion thread, but thought I'd let you know some details here since you're still looking around. The cheapest I found was AU$15.18 from Fishpond. It's free shipping, but that one ships from the UK so it may take awhile and I'm not sure about any Australian import or customs fees.

As far as Australian shippers, the cheapest I found was Dymocks for AU$12.95 (it's the third result down on the link), but there is also a AU$5 shipping fee, bringing it to AU$17.95.

And there is also Bookworld which has it for AU$17.99 as its "Citizen Price" (it's the fourth result over on the link), and that includes free shipping.

In all cases I think this cheapest Australian version is the Lowe-Porter translation with the lady on the cover, though I could be wrong. The newer Woods translation does seem to be more pricey in Australia, with the cheapest I noticed being at Bookworld for AU$23.39 as its "Citizen Price" with free shipping (it's the fifth result in the link).

There is one link I didn't include in the discussion thread, and that is for ebay Australia. Here is the link. I found a few Australian sellers selling the book with free shipping. The cheapest at the moment is the Lowe-Porter again, for AU$18.73. The cheapest Woods translation at the moment is AU$25.95.

Certainly all of these are not cheap and if you decide to sit out the month, it's understandable. I've sat out other months for varieties of reasons myself. Though we'd love to have you in the discussion thread if you do find a copy; the more the merrier!

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Originally Posted by caleb72 View Post
[...]

My other issue was that I failed to check how big the book was. My only exposure to Mann was through Death in Venice and I also own Tristan and Tonio Kröger. Apparently my misfiring synapses had delivered the message that Buddenbrooks would be of a smaller size. I mean it follows doesn't it? If an author writes a couple of smaller size stories, he couldn't possibly write a bigger novel.

[...]
It's not called "highly challenging" for nothing.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:06 PM   #58
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It's not called "highly challenging" for nothing.
but this pricing strategy is weird to say the least - and no wonder people then go to the darknet for these things: procuring it that way I am sure would take less than five minutes, I really don't understand!
Good libraries are still around (though in the UK, maybe not for much longer), but this is really silly.

Thanks for the uber thorough search!
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:06 PM   #59
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Thanks so much for all that research, sun surfer. I'm checking out a few options at the moment and will report back next week.
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Old 07-12-2013, 02:16 AM   #60
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Would you mind getting used books? There are some here, one copy is in Melbourne for US$ 1.90?
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...&x=-370&y=-376

Also, there are new pb copies for $12.95 but I don't know if this is AUS$
http://www.readings.com.au/products/.../9780749386474

Don't know if you explored this, but in case you didn't you can find the availability of new pbooks here http://www.randomhouse.com.au/books/...749386474.aspx

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