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Old 07-02-2013, 06:53 AM   #31
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I don't care for the characterization 'fully functional' as it implies that what works for one works for all. For me, most of the time, I need two screens to be fully functional. This new tablet is a content consumption device with limited ability to do other things -- just like the kindle and just like the ipad.

This is simply Microsoft executing on their vision of a single operating system for every possible use of computer hardware. Phone, tab, laptop, and desktop all work the same. Apps developed for one can easily be ported to the others.

Some people will still be scratching their heads when Windows 8 becomes the most popular tablet and phone OS. Others will still be insisting it hasn't really happened or that it really doesn't matter.

People bring a lot of preference/bias/advocacy to the computer discussion. Some people are going to like this right away. Others may get one later when they get used to Win8 and its apps. More will grab one as a bigger, better version of their phone.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:22 AM   #32
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I don't care for the characterization 'fully functional' as it implies that what works for one works for all. For me, most of the time, I need two screens to be fully functional. This new tablet is a content consumption device with limited ability to do other things -- just like the kindle and just like the ipad.

This is simply Microsoft executing on their vision of a single operating system for every possible use of computer hardware. Phone, tab, laptop, and desktop all work the same. Apps developed for one can easily be ported to the others.

Some people will still be scratching their heads when Windows 8 becomes the most popular tablet and phone OS. Others will still be insisting it hasn't really happened or that it really doesn't matter.

People bring a lot of preference/bias/advocacy to the computer discussion. Some people are going to like this right away. Others may get one later when they get used to Win8 and its apps. More will grab one as a bigger, better version of their phone.
I can understand the principal but for me it just doesn't work. My laptop is vertical it stands in front of me and I use a mouse to work it for precision.

My tablet lays in front of me or I'd held in my hand and I use my finger to work it.

They are not the same device, they don't need all the same applications. Stuff I do on my Laptop just can't be done on a tablet, certainly not when I run an iTunes that has 180gb of stuff in it. I don't want 'cloud' for everything, cloud is back up only. I want my own base system, and that is a PC. Tablets, phones etc they are devices than run off the base system, not instead of it.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:13 AM   #33
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Imagine that you pick up a tablet at the Microsoft Store and logon to your Windows 8 account and all of your email and favorites and apps are immediately available to you. How does that make you feel compared to contemplating the effort required to install the apps (if they are available) importing favorites, and configuring all of your email accounts. A lot of people will really appreciate that.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:34 AM   #34
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Imagine that you pick up a tablet at the Microsoft Store and logon to your Windows 8 account and all of your email and favorites and apps are immediately available to you. How does that make you feel compared to contemplating the effort required to install the apps (if they are available) importing favorites, and configuring all of your email accounts. A lot of people will really appreciate that.
The last thing I want is a 'Windows 8' account. When I buy a laptop I want a blank slate so I can load my own program's on it, most of which are not standard program's, when I buy a tablet I want to select what goes on it, not pick and choose from what Microsoft think I want.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #35
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I don't care for the characterization 'fully functional' as it implies that what works for one works for all. For me, most of the time, I need two screens to be fully functional.
The full phrase is: 'fully functional mini-computer' as opposed to 'fully functional tablet' with all the implied limitations of a tablet OS.

Of course not all devices meet all the needs of every user...if you can't work on an 8" screen because of your particular requirements then you don't choose that device... E.g. It is valid to say that a basic Dell computer doesn't fit your needs when you want a bleeding edge Alienware rig...it's not so valid to say the basic Dell is not a fully functional computer.

As an aside: I have been using a surface pro for about 2 months for programming, photoshop, ePub editing, Office, and gaming. It has a USB 3.0 plug to attach a keyboard/mouse and a video out port (HDMI) that allows me to extend/duplicate the desktop to another screen when I need a large display - and it works great as a tablet when I need it to do that. So the concept has been demonstrated...whether or not this new device can do it as well with an 8" screen is yet to be seen.

Cheers!

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Old 07-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #36
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To paraphrase the Economist when Al Gore ran for President of the USA... He had a slamdunk and he bricked it. Windows had a Slam dunk for the last 5 years and bricked it. Welcome to the world of Android and IOS... maybe Windows will change it....but I imagine that is a big Maybe... most people don't want a fully functional tablet...only email/text/browsing/lightgaming/chat/etc...
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:38 AM   #37
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The last thing I want is a 'Windows 8' account. When I buy a laptop I want a blank slate so I can load my own program's on it, most of which are not standard program's, when I buy a tablet I want to select what goes on it, not pick and choose from what Microsoft think I want.
You don't have to back up all everything to the cloud if you don't want to. It's entirely optional. But some of us find it very useful. Why are people these days so opposed to options?

As far as "what Microsoft thinks I want", assuming you are talking about bloatware. They are about as good as Apple in that regard, perhaps better because you can actually set default programs for actions. Android almost always comes littered with bloat. Or maybe you are talking about the Windows store, in which case I would agree with you, I think it should be as open as Windows has always been. But Microsoft hasn't been too discriminating in what they let in.

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Old 07-02-2013, 09:49 AM   #38
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To paraphrase the Economist when Al Gore ran for President of the USA... He had a slamdunk and he bricked it. Windows had a Slam dunk for the last 5 years and bricked it. Welcome to the world of Android and IOS... maybe Windows will change it....but I imagine that is a big Maybe... most people don't want a fully functional tablet...only email/text/browsing/lightgaming/chat/etc...

Yes, Microsoft made some big mistakes. Their advantage though is a single interface on all devices. I think that's a good vision, they just didn't execute it very well or quickly enough. They still may not recover, but things are starting to come together.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #39
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You don't have to back up all everything to the cloud if you don't want to. It's entirely optional. But some of us find it very useful. Why are people these days so opposed to options?

As far as "what Microsoft thinks I want", assuming you are talking about bloatware. They are about as good as Apple in that regard, perhaps better because you can actually set default programs for actions. Android almost always comes littered with bloat. Or maybe you are talking about the Windows store, in which case I would agree with you, I think it should be as open as Windows has always been.
I'm not against options, but it all comes down to practicalities.

I have laptop with over 400gb of storage, hubby is at the same level. Cloud storage for that amount of data would be an astronomical cost plus it relies on perfect wifi connection, something that in this day and age still cannot be guaranteed. I know my wifi went down this week for hours.

I know eventually I will have to use a windows 8 on a laptop, but only when my current one dies, by then who knows where the Microsoft operating system will be and what tablets will run, until that day I will stick with the system I have, Windows 7 and either an apple or android tablet.

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Old 07-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #40
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True to a point. But Apple and Google are slowly integrating their systems as well...maybe not as seamless and M$ but.... They do have large fan bases to work with who already have tablets and/or phones. I for one will not buy another M$ product...I did update to Windows 8 for my two personal computers that I own..but Lost faith when they "Launched Windows phone
8" on October 26th last year but somehow Forgot Japan, where I live, till this Spring... Sorry too late... Android all the way for me... And now Android is my main computing system for work... Apple Sorry....I am not 'different' enough to try their overpriced products...

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Yes, Microsoft made some big mistakes. Their advantage though is a single interface on all devices. I think that's a good vision, they just didn't execute it very well or quickly enough. They still may not recover, but things are starting to come together.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #41
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I'm not against options, but it all comes down to practicalities.

I have laptop with over 400gb of storage, hubby is at the same level. Cloud storage for that amount of data would be an astronomical cost plus it relies on perfect wifi connection, something that in this day and age still cannot be guaranteed. I know my wifi went down this week for hours.

I know eventually I will have to use a windows 8 on a laptop, but only when my current one dies, by then who knows where the Microsoft operating system will be and what tablets will run, until that day I will stick with the system I have, Windows 7 and either an apple or android tablet.
Again, unlike say Google's Chromebooks, you don't need to use the cloud if you don't want to. This tablet obviously won't meet your needs. Cloud storage doesn't meet your needs. That's fine, I'm not trying to tell you what you need. But that doesn't mean these options are a disadvantage to the Windows 8 ecosystem, which is what you have implied.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:56 AM   #42
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All in all the more on the market the better for the consumer at large.... or at small in this case
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:44 AM   #43
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This kind of argument is what I don't get. Who wants to run Photoshop on a 8" tablet? These are designed primarily for Metro apps, which they run very well. The desktop stuff is a bonus, no other tablet can run those kind of applications. And they run stuff like Office perfectly fine. Being able to run them in addition to the standard tablet stuff isn't a disadvantage.

If you do need something with real ultrabook specs to run photoshop, they have you covered there too with the Surface Pro and other Windows 8 devices.

Don't get me wrong, these Windows 8 devices aren't perfect by any means, but they are a lot better than most people give them credit for.
This is exactly my delima when I stumbled across the Note 8 at our local Staples. As much as I loved how it works there has been a niggling in the back of my head about "it's not Windows". If this Acer has an active, as in Wacom, digitizer and display specs in the same range as the Samsung Gaxaxy Note 8 then I'm in the target demographic as I need the ability to run Office apps, and NO none of the Android office suites touch the level of compatiblity and sophistication of MS Office apps. This sort of device would indeed make life far easier for me long term as for me I see every Android device I own as an unhappy compromise...as much as I feel in love with the Note 8 in-store it's not a Windows based device with the implied compatibility I want and need. Price is about the same.

Last when talking using the device to earn a living I am not going to allow a $100-$200 premium influence my purchase. For recreation then sure a 100-bucks less is great but in terms of time spent chasing my own tail trying to get cross platform reliability it's not even on the radar.

One thing I am disappointed with is there is not a single relational database creation tool for Android, well beyond HanDBase (a very low end under funded option sadly). With a Win based device I envision at minimum Access, even better Foxpro and even better adding SQL DB Management tools. Right now you cannot create/prototype an RDB on an Adroid device. There are some management tools but nothing for actually creating the RDB. Heck even flat file DB's are not that well supported beyond proprietary stuff. Even mySQL Lite is only supported from an app use perspective not a design & create perspective. That is just a small example of why the higher cost would easily be worth it for people like myself.

And psssst, what about Calibre on such a device? How does it run these days on Win8? I have been told it will likely never run fully on Android due to certain library dependices...would it not be worth an extra $100 or so to have that tool on your tablet?
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:51 AM   #44
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Let's imagine some more, OK? You get up in the morning and pick your phone up off the inductive charger, check your mail, and check your schedule. It's a big phone, but slips into your pocket. When you climb into your car, it pairs with the car so phone calls, email, and gps info come via the car's sound system. When you get to work, you put the phone on another inductive mat and it pairs with a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. It connects to the company wifi network and pairs with the tv in your office. At the end of the day, you head to a dental checkup. When you park your butt in the reception area, the phone pairs with the public wifi access point. You do some shopping and watch youtube while you wait. When you get home, you stream a baseball game to your tv from your phone using the phone as a remote control.

If you were choosing one device for that, would it run android or Microsoft Access, Vizio, and Excel?
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Old 07-05-2013, 11:29 AM   #45
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Can't we already do this? Why do we need to imagine it?
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