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Old 06-23-2013, 04:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post

Intellectually, I like the idea of the continued existence of small booksellers because they do serve a need by providing books that might not be available elsewhere and the staff can be a storehouse of knowledge. In reality, though, I never patronize them; I've only gone in them when I've been on vacation, looking for something to read.
And that's the problem in a nutshell. We *don't* need independent bookstores. Amazon and online bookstores have taken over the 'providing niche books' niche. There isn't really a need for small stores that only sell books anymore.

I have shopped at an independent bookstore recently, and it was frankly uncomfortable. I have a much better experience shopping at B&N, where I go at least once a month. I'm not at all inclined to go back to the independent store, or to look up other independent stores in my area.

I have better experiences at gaming stores that also sell comics and books. I wonder if we won't see more stores that combine books, comics and non-electronic games in a more thorough way? Right now some stores do, but it's not well done.
Based on the people I know, fans of tabletop games are readers and like to have face-to-face discussions with people who share their hobbies. There might be some benefits to capitalizing on that combination if saving the physical store location is important. When the market changes a business needs to change.

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BTW, it is quite simple to take swipes at any nationality. Foreign nationals may neither own a TV station nor an airline in the US. Yet that is obviously fair and just while the French are just fuddy-duddy, anti free-traders if they don't want to see all of their independent bookshops steamrolled by a US company.
Yes, it's very easy to generalize and sling mud instead of doing something productive.

Last edited by Rbneader; 06-23-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:31 PM   #17
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But the reason is not to be protective towards smaller booksellers. The reason is to be protective towards the book buyers and ensure that they do not get it worse in the long run. And one method to do that seems to be to protect smaller booksellers.
I don't know about that rationale. Independent stores seem to charge full prices for books. I don't really see where that benefits me, price-wise. The benefit would be in the ephemeral - a gathering place of people with the same interest in reading, a place to showcase an author, etc. Something that I don't take advantage of.

There's always going to be some new big player moving into the retail community. It's Amazon's turn now, but sooner or later they'll be eclipsed by someone else. Right now, they're still acting in conjunction with the vision of their founder; if that changes then they might stumble and someone else will move into the vacuum.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by CommonReader View Post
BTW, it is quite simple to take swipes at any nationality. Foreign nationals may neither own a TV station nor an airline in the US. Yet that is obviously fair and just while the French are just fuddy-duddy, anti free-traders if they don't want to see all of their independent bookshops steamrolled by a US company.
Not sure what you're on about, I didn't take any swipes at any nationality at all.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:57 PM   #19
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I think the only real benefit to independent bookstores anymore would be those with specialized collections: a feminist bookstore, for example, or one that (as mentioned above) specializes in comics and media tie-ins. General purpose independent bookstores can't compete with the big box stores, who can't compete with Amazon.

In general, I know what I'm looking for when I go to Amazon. There's a very nice local indy store that I like to go to when I'm looking for non-specific non-fiction like science or psychology, and I know they have a small but choice collection there.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:06 AM   #20
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Obviously it would be preferable to close the tax loopholes that enable Amazon to undercut its competitors. As that isn't as easily done it is acceptable to use other means.
Please tell me that was sarcasm?
Instead of addressing the actual problem, simply lashing out (at anyone, in the end - unless the law explicitely refers to Amazon, and I hope that wouldn't be legal) is acceptable?
I don't even want to think up other possibilities. The idea itself is horrible enough.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:29 AM   #21
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But the reason is not to be protective towards smaller booksellers. The reason is to be protective towards the book buyers and ensure that they do not get it worse in the long run. And one method to do that seems to be to protect smaller booksellers.
So hit consumers over the head now in order to protect them from some theoretical threat in the future? Now you don't seriously believe that. There must be a serious lobby effort from publishers and small booksellers. And it is strange that nobody ever mentions the incredibly high taxes France has, efforts to avoid part of that burden and pass the savings on should be applauded.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:59 AM   #22
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In Europe, Amazon practice tax-avoidance to the tune of BILLIONS. If they are not willing to pay their taxes like I have to, they should not be allowed to exist. Destroy them and let a less-parasitic organization/s step into their niche.

In addition they don't like paying their workers and they don't give to charity.

Vive la France! You can say a lot about France and the French, but as a country it is more democratic than the USA and the UK.

Last edited by Rizla; 06-24-2013 at 04:30 AM. Reason: Avoidance and Evasion: So easy to get them confused because they both involve NOT PAYING YOUR TAX.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:04 AM   #23
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In Europe, Amazon practice tax-evasion to the tune of BILLIONS. If they are not willing to pay their taxes like I have to, they should not be allowed to exist. Destroy them and let a less-parasitic organization/s step into their niche.
No they don't. They practice tax AVOIDANCE - as does every large company. Tax AVOIDANCE (paying the minimum amount of tax that the law permits) is entirely different to tax EVASION, which is the illegal non-payment of taxes.

In an earlier thread you admitted that you don't pay more tax than the law requires you to, so I'm puzzled by your constant sniping at Amazon for doing exactly what you yourself do: pay the minimum amount of tax that the law requires.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:04 AM   #24
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Vive la France! You can say a lot about France and the French, but as a country it is more democratic than the USA and the UK.
Really? What is your sources for that?

Joseph de Maistre comes to my mind: "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite." (Every nation gets the government it deserves.)
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:28 AM   #25
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No they don't. They practice tax AVOIDANCE - as does every large company. Tax AVOIDANCE (paying the minimum amount of tax that the law permits) is entirely different to tax EVASION, which is the illegal non-payment of taxes.

In an earlier thread you admitted that you don't pay more tax than the law requires you to, so I'm puzzled by your constant sniping at Amazon for doing exactly what you yourself do: pay the minimum amount of tax that the law requires.
Hahaha. You're just ready to pounce aren't you?
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:31 AM   #26
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Hahaha. You're just ready to pounce aren't you?
I'm doing nothing other than to question what I believe to be incorrect information. You've claimed that Amazon are committing the crime of tax evasion. Do you have one shred of evidence to support this assertion?
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:42 AM   #27
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Only with how things are done in France, with paper books

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Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
I don't know about that rationale. Independent stores seem to charge full prices for books.
In France the publisher decides on a price for each book and from then wherever (online, chain store or a small independent one) one will buy said price, it will be the same price. That's the law. The maximum discount, called the publisher discount, is 5%. Before, some independent bookstores weren't applying it, now pretty much every book is sold with this discount.

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Originally Posted by Rbneader View Post
And that's the problem in a nutshell. We *don't* need independent bookstores. Amazon and online bookstores have taken over the 'providing niche books' niche. There isn't really a need for small stores that only sell books anymore.
Where I live, there are many independent bookstores more than the big chain ones. I find them useful when buying books for children, for example. I know many people who wish to find a book dealing with things that their children are going to experience soon to prepare them. For example, when my best friend was expecting her second child she was trying to find a book in which the mom is breastfeeding her baby (not common in books here*). The shopkeeper was able to help her find what book would be best suited for that.
* you also have loads of books with siblings being a brother and a sister, it's hard to find ones with two boys or two girls.


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Originally Posted by tompe View Post
But the reason is not to be protective towards smaller booksellers. The reason is to be protective towards the book buyers and ensure that they do not get it worse in the long run. And one method to do that seems to be to protect smaller booksellers.
I agree with you. This is the end goal in my opinion, for that the small bookstores need to stay up and running.

Edit: regarding what could happen if Aurélie Filippetti idea goes through, I think Amazon will have much more premium users than before. I don't think it can be seen as free shipping since buyers pay a monthly fee. Could be a good thing for Amazon in the end...

Last edited by samhy; 06-24-2013 at 04:52 AM. Reason: Something could be misunderstood
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:00 AM   #28
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Really? What is your sources for that?

Joseph de Maistre comes to my mind: "Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérite." (Every nation gets the government it deserves.)
The French electoral system is obviously more democratic than the UK/US system (which are essentially the same), but any further discussion on the subject really should stay in the Politics & Religion sub-forum.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:04 AM   #29
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Incidentally, the title of the originating Businessinsider article (and of this thread) are totally biased. The French government in no way says they are doing this because Amazon is 'too friendly'. It is a misleading creation of the article web-site, but that's okay. It's journalism, and nonsense.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:06 AM   #30
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The French electoral system is obviously more democratic than the UK/US system (which are essentially the same), but any further discussion on the subject really should stay in the Politics & Religion sub-forum.
And the highlighted section shows that you know nothing about it anyway, so should just stop discussing it entirely.
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