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Old 06-15-2013, 08:02 AM   #61
shalym
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Maltby View Post
It's not just the publishers. The major retailers will hang onto DRM as long as they can, for their own reasons. Yes, even those with a proprietary format as a backup.

Luck;
Ken
Ken...if that were true, then why would they give authors/publishers the option of not putting DRM on their books? It would seem that if the retailers were really trying to lock you in with DRM they would force publishers and authors to put it on every book.

Shari
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by shalym View Post
Ken...if that were true, then why would they give authors/publishers the option of not putting DRM on their books? It would seem that if the retailers were really trying to lock you in with DRM they would force publishers and authors to put it on every book.

Shari
Given your device list, I presume that your point of reference is in regards to Amazon, not Sony or Kobo. Authors as in independent authors using a program open to all, and the Big Publishing Houses (BPH) may have a slightly different relationship with Amazon. The BPHs do not seem to react well to edicts from Amazon. "Forcing" the use of DRM in general is not anything Amazon is doing, but they will only sell ebooks that use their particular DRM.

If it is; "If you want DRM you have to use ours" and only ours works on Kindles, and only Kindles, there is not a lot of choice for most authors and publishers, when working with Amazon. (Or Sony, or Kobo, or ...)

Luck;
Ken
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:06 AM   #63
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Doesn't DRM have to die before it can haunt us?
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Maltby
It's not just the publishers. The major retailers will hang onto DRM as long as they can, for their own reasons. Yes, even those with a proprietary format as a backup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Maltby View Post
"Forcing" the use of DRM in general is not anything Amazon is doing, but they will only sell ebooks that use their particular DRM.
So you've changed your mind?
Amazon aren't forcing people to use DRM for their own reasons?
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:50 PM   #65
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My understanding is that the push for DRM came from the publishers.

When you self-publish, you're given an opportunity to use or not to use DRM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #66
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Amazon will happily take advantage of the "lock in" benefits that DRM provides when the publisher requires DRM on their products. But they will also sell DRM-free books if the publisher requests their product be DRM-Free (Tor). If that constitutes "forcing" on the part of Amazon ... so be it.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:08 PM   #67
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Amazon isn't consistent in listing which books have DRM or not.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:41 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
So you've changed your mind?
Amazon aren't forcing people to use DRM for their own reasons?
No I haven't changed my mind at all. I never said that Amazon was using some kind of "force" on authors or publishers to use DRM in general, just that they are using DRM for their own purposes and will keep doing so, with their own DRM for as long as they can.

It is my hope that other publishers will follow Tor's example and not allow the imposition of DRM on their books. If they were to all take such a position Amazon would be restrained from using their proprietary DRM.

Luck;
Ken

Last edited by Ken Maltby; 06-15-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Maltby View Post
It is my hope that other publishers will follow Tor's example and not allow the imposition of DRM on their books. If they were to all take such a position Amazon would be restrained from using their proprietary DRM.
The publishers are 'allowing the imposition' of DRM, they are requiring it.
If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it, and they would sell books through stores that didn't apply it.
You are twisting things too far to try to end up blaming Amazon here.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:03 PM   #70
Ken Maltby
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
The publishers are 'allowing the imposition' of DRM, they are requiring it.
If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it, and they would sell books through stores that didn't apply it.
You are twisting things too far to try to end up blaming Amazon here.
OK, lets look at it from the point of view of an author and/or publisher that has been convinced that they need DRM or they will suffer huge loss of sales. They will see a marketplace where all the major ebook retailers, that account for over 60% of sales, have their own proprietary DRM and are quite willing (I would suggest, eager) to apply their DRM to any book files they will sell. Is it your position that the retailers are not using their proprietary DRM to lock-in customers to their "ecosystem" and devices?

As to Amazon in particular; It has been suggested that Amazon is in a special position because they own their own DRM and need not pay Adobe or anyone else a per book fee. Do you think they will easily give up any advantage they gain from this situation? While other retailers might give up applying DRM and no longer have to pay such fees for the use of the DRM, Amazon would not have the same incentive.

Luck;
Ken
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:59 PM   #71
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Is it your position that the retailers are not using their proprietary DRM to lock-in customers to their "ecosystem" and devices?
It is my position that you continually try to word things to make it seem as though big bad Amazon is forcing everyone to use their DRM. Which simply isn't true. The majority of big publishers refuse to sell through retailers who do not apply DRM.
Not all of them. O'Reilly and Tor are examples who sell their books without DRM. And they do so through Amazon.
Amazon doesn't need to be 'restrained' from applying DRM, and publishers are not 'allowing' its 'imposition'.
When the publisher wants to use DRM, Amazon applies DRM.
When the publisher does not want to use DRM, Amazon does not apply DRM.

Quote:
As to Amazon in particular; It has been suggested that Amazon is in a special position because they own their own DRM and need not pay Adobe or anyone else a per book fee. Do you think they will easily give up any advantage they gain from this situation? While other retailers might give up applying DRM and no longer have to pay such fees for the use of the DRM, Amazon would not have the same incentive.
I think if publishers say 'stop applying DRM to our books' then Amazon will stop applying DRM to their books.
It is as simple as that. And it is exactly what has happened with Tor books.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:24 PM   #72
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Not all of them. O'Reilly and Tor are examples who sell their books without DRM. And they do so through Amazon.
And recently Baen has started selling ebooks through Amazon and also without DRM.

So, no.. Amazon *does not require* DRM.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #73
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OK, lets look at it from the point of view of an author and/or publisher that has been convinced that they need DRM or they will suffer huge loss of sales. They will see a marketplace where all the major ebook retailers, that account for over 60% of sales, have their own proprietary DRM and are quite willing (I would suggest, eager) to apply their DRM to any book files they will sell. Is it your position that the retailers are not using their proprietary DRM to lock-in customers to their "ecosystem" and devices?

As to Amazon in particular; It has been suggested that Amazon is in a special position because they own their own DRM and need not pay Adobe or anyone else a per book fee. Do you think they will easily give up any advantage they gain from this situation? While other retailers might give up applying DRM and no longer have to pay such fees for the use of the DRM, Amazon would not have the same incentive.

Luck;
Ken
Everything that I have ever seen says that one doesn't have to be a big publisher to opt out of the DRM. I've seen posts here from little folks saying they were putting out a Kindle book and wanted to know if they should apply the DRM.

If Amazon wanted to require DRM, they could easily do that for all those people. Only give exemptions for the big publishers, but they don't.

Does Amazon charge a fee for the DRM? How much money does DRM bring them? Maybe they'd love to get rid of the DRM maintenance and development, but they have to provide it to get the big publishers in.

Maybe Amazon knows that most Kindle customers will never use Calibre conversion in order to go buy epubs from Barnes & Noble.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:24 AM   #74
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Today I read an interesting news about a new kind of DRM.

This kind of DRM will not limit you on any device or app, you can read it anywhere you like. But once it is copied, the words & sentences in the book will differ, even change the meaning it should be.

So even getting the copy of the book, you are not able to read it fluently. Maybe in the original book, the man is dead, but in one copy, he is not. That will be interesting.
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:37 AM   #75
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Maybe in the original book, the man is dead, but in one copy, he is not.
Schrödinger's cat style DRM
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