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Old 06-02-2013, 11:20 PM   #16
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PS--I removed those references to AmaznRemoved references, then saved, then validated the stylesheet, made a couple of repairs based on error messages, converted the epub to mobi via Kindle Previewer (Looks good on Kindle Paperwhite device and on KP), converted to epub via www.online-convert, loaded it into my Nook, and it WORKED!! Looked at it on ADE and it, too, worked. It just won't work with an epub produced by Sigil . . .

I continue to get the same error in Sigil check: "OEBPS/Text/part0044_split_000.html" with this explanation: "This OPS document is reachable but not present in the OPF <spine>. "Reachable" means that a reference of some kind that points to this resource exists in the epub." I get this twice because one of the sections of the book had been split for some unknown reason so I put them back together in a single section and renamed it, Part OO44.html. I deleted the two split sections.

I have checked the opf file, the ncx, and the 0044 section, as well as a number of other sections of the book--can't find any reference to these deleted sections. Anything to worry about?
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:26 PM   #17
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FYI. I just read in Liz Castro's book, EPUB Straight to the Point, page 130, the following:

Because older ereaders weren't as good at supporting CSS, newer ereaders got into the extremely dubious habit of automatically overriding designers' CSS in order to compensate. In particular, properties like margin, padding, line-height, width, font-size, and font-family are routinely ignored for one's own good! Gee, thanks! Luckily, some ereaders will listen to you if you override their override by using!important.
1. To insist that your CSS rule take precedence, add !important to the end of it between the property/value pair and the semicolon.

margin: 0 .5em 0 0 !important;

Because this overuse of !important can cause some rules to override other rules in the same style sheet, it will be wonderful when these ereaders stop requiring its use. In the meantime, be aware that an !important declaration takes precedence over one that is not so important, even among your own rules in your own CSS file.


Just sayin'
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Old 06-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #18
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Hey, Guys,
Just when I thought it was getting better . . . Well, you know . . .

Never did really solve the issue of my epubs not working on my Nook or in ADE in terms of the layout. It's interesting, that the same epub (created on Sigil) that will convert to mobi or azw via KindlePreviewer will turn out perfect on Kindle devices, won't work on an epub device.

Checked for missing semicolons and other issues in my stylesheet, but as a newbie, I'm sure there are things I haven't quite figured out. But even with all the semi-colons in their proper place, still no dice.

Tried something new: I took my mobi file (created by KindlePreviewer/KindleGen) and went to www.online-convert.com. Converted it from mobi to epub. Guess what! When I put it on my Nook device, it was perfect!!!

So far, so good, right? But no, let's throw in the next issue.

I had to go back through the epub file--which was lovely and the stylesheet only had a handful of Calibre codes (unlike the conversion done on Calibre, which had almost 200!!--I know, I know . . . I still don't know how to produce a clean file with a clean stylesheet . . .). I needed to do some typo repairs and spacing repairs, etc., with Sigil. When I did the check with Sigil, I got the following message (for EVERY h2 in the document): attribute 'data-AmznRemoved' is not declared for element 'h2'. I had seen this in the code view, but didn't know what to make of it.

I am removing all of those elements from the code and will probably do the same procedure (convert to mobi via KPreviewer, followed by convert to epub via the online converter) to see what happens next.

Any ideas??? (anybody know where I can buy a stylesheet that fits my client's very complicated layout???)
With all due respect, are you being paid to produce this book?

You refer to "my client" and a complicated layout. Are you charging this person to "convert" a book with Calibre that you can't get to work on a Nook? I mean...of all the e-readers, Nook is probably the easiest to get to work. And with all due respect to Liz--whom I know, and whose book I recommend frequently--that was then and this is now. Nook does not override any legitimate styles.

Your "not found" error is because you split a section, have a reference somewhere else to that formerly-split chapter, and didn't clean it up (the references) when you re-merged them.

And I don't think I can speak adequately to the idea of creating a mobi first, and then creating an ePUB, again, using Calibre, from a converted mobi. I suppose that there are some people who would do this, but this is utterly and completely backwards. And if you are charging someone to do ebook conversion work, you most certainly should not be using Calibre to do it. And if you don't know what the errata are in your classes....

I don't mean to sound like I must sound, but as a commercial eBookmaker, this is the type of stuff that gives me the willies. This is the type of ebook that shows up at my shop later with someone asking for changes to what is (let's say, in another case), a giant steaming pile of you-know-what. Of more importance to me, the unhappy author/publisher starts telling stories about how "all" ebook-makers are inept or worse, ripping them off.

I can tell you without any hesitation whatsoever that even my most rudimentary stylesheets, when I started out--even those that have what I would now consider errors (y'know, setting font sizes in points, say, rather than ems, back in '08 or so), were never overriden by Nook. I know because I used to buy and download the books to my Nook, when I was starting out. I don't know what you are doing that's screwing up your files, but now you're using "online-convert.com?"

Did you get stuck with this book somehow? Did you make the print edition, and now your client is insisting you make the digital version? ???? I know your "title" says, "just learnin'," but can you clarify your situation?

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Old 06-10-2013, 05:22 PM   #19
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Post your CSS (before it got mangled my going ePub > Mobi > ePub). There is probably something you are missing.

I have to agree 100% with Hitch that going the way you are going for a client is a very poor way to do it. Getting paid to botch the eBook is akin to ripping off your client. You would be better off telling the client you can't do it and let the client find someone else who can.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #20
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With all due respect, are you being paid to produce this book?

You refer to "my client" and a complicated layout. Are you charging this person to "convert" a book with Calibre that you can't get to work on a Nook? I mean...of all the e-readers, Nook is probably the easiest to get to work. And with all due respect to Liz--whom I know, and whose book I recommend frequently--that was then and this is now. Nook does not override any legitimate styles.

Your "not found" error is because you split a section, have a reference somewhere else to that formerly-split chapter, and didn't clean it up (the references) when you re-merged them.

And I don't think I can speak adequately to the idea of creating a mobi first, and then creating an ePUB, again, using Calibre, from a converted mobi. I suppose that there are some people who would do this, but this is utterly and completely backwards. And if you are charging someone to do ebook conversion work, you most certainly should not be using Calibre to do it. And if you don't know what the errata are in your classes....

I don't mean to sound like I must sound, but as a commercial eBookmaker, this is the type of stuff that gives me the willies. This is the type of ebook that shows up at my shop later with someone asking for changes to what is (let's say, in another case), a giant steaming pile of you-know-what. Of more importance to me, the unhappy author/publisher starts telling stories about how "all" ebook-makers are inept or worse, ripping them off.

I can tell you without any hesitation whatsoever that even my most rudimentary stylesheets, when I started out--even those that have what I would now consider errors (y'know, setting font sizes in points, say, rather than ems, back in '08 or so), were never overriden by Nook. I know because I used to buy and download the books to my Nook, when I was starting out. I don't know what you are doing that's screwing up your files, but now you're using "online-convert.com?"

Did you get stuck with this book somehow? Did you make the print edition, and now your client is insisting you make the digital version? ???? I know your "title" says, "just learnin'," but can you clarify your situation?

Hitch
I completely understand what you are saying and yes, I would have told my client that things were not working and someone else might do a better job. Let me try to explain the whole situation--maybe I was unclear when I was saying the Nook "didn't work." What didn't work was it would not display the book in the client's layout and according to the stylesheet. (I was able, by the way, to fix that "split" section thing. thanks.)

First: The client's book uses a very complex layout, something much more suited to a print book--over 300 pages with over 200 images (mostly photos, some b/w that were taken in 1937. I tried to counsel her away from an ebook but she insisted. The layout involves major sections, divided into parts, divided into what she calls chapters. (I consider her sections to be parts, her parts to be chapters, and her chapters to be simply subheadings within the chapter--at least she wasn't beginning every one on a new page and some were only a paragraph or two long, but she insisted they were chapters.)

She has very large selections of text in each "chapter," which are done in italics--sans-serif font, while the main text is serif font. She appropriately uses no indent first paragraph, indent subsequent paragraphs, no spaces between paragraphs, but includes spaces between italicized paragraphs and non-italicized paragraphs. She repeats the indent pattern within the italicized selections as well as after italicized selections even though a new chapter is not starting. Then there is picture placement--thankfully, she is happy with centering each picture without text wrapping. (I won't even go into the mess she had made of many of the pictures that I had to fix . . .) I did have to persuade her that depending on the font size chosen by a reader, there would be sometimes large blank spaces at the bottom of the page when the image would not fit. She was okay with that.

Second: I could successfully create the epub with Sigil. It would pass Sigil validation, pass epub check validation and properly convert to mobi via Kindle Previewer--beautiful--every space every indent every serif or sans serif working perfectly--in every view and every device. Load it into my Kindle Paperwhite--beautiful, exactly as laid out, except all photos are b/w and small, but the zoom feature works well. (The successful conversion to mobi suggests to me that the epub was good.)

Third: Load the epub as produced by Sigil before conversion to mobi into my Nook Color or in Adobe Digital Editions. All paragraphs are indented with a space between each one. All text is serif. The client is not happy with this. (I have, by the way, run multiple versions past her for her approval and for identifying errors--hers and mine--followed by additional editing and revising stylesheet.)

Fourth: Take a shot at converting the mobi to epub using online-converter.com with Nook Color as the target device. Load the new epub into Nook Color (and ADE) and all paragraphing and spacing is perfect. The only issue remaining is that there is no sans-serif font anywhere. I tried Liz Castro's advice of adding "!important" in the stylesheet between "sans-serif" and the semi-colon. It didn't change it. (The client has decided that she can live with that on Nook and is very happy with the Kindle displays.)

Fifth: Put the new epub back into Sigil and do a validation. This results in the following message: "attribute 'data-AmznRemoved' is not declared for element (ID specific element)" which is apparently part of their conversion process). I remove all of these references in the code, save and validate with Sigil and with epub check. All is well. Load it into Nook Color and it looks exactly as it did before removing the AmznRemoved codes. It displays the layout with proper paragraph indents and spacing--the only thing is the absence of any sans-serif font.

Next: Use online-convert to convert for Kobo e-reader. Also a successful conversion. Loaded into my tablet's Kobo e-reader, there were similar layout issues with spacing, but when I turned off Kobo Styling, the paragraphing layout was good, but like Nook, all text was serif.

Finally: The files have been passed along to the client and our agreement is that if any of them fail in the upload to Nook Press or KDP, I will not be paid until they are successfully uploaded and accepted, and if I can't manage the repairs, I will hire someone to do it for me. I'm fine with that.

I know what my limitations are with writing CSS and my stylesheet for this work got complex in order to create her layout. For example, I had to create p styles for non-italicized, serif font first paragraphs (with padding above), middle paragraphs (no padding), and last paragraphs (with padding below), then p styles for italicized, sans-serif font first paragraphs, middle paragraphs, and last paragraphs in order to make sure that padding between paragraphs was either there or not, depending on the exact position of the paragraph relative to other paragraphs.

By the way, now she wants the print book, which I wanted to do in the first place. It should be a piece of cake. I really appreciate all of the ideas and advice you all have given me while I've stumbled along. My learning curve was steep and I know I've not reached the top, but I feel good about what I've produced at this point. I know I will get better as I continue to learn.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:26 PM   #21
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Your client is crazy. If the ePub is written correctly, you do not need to convert it. When you do these sorts of conversion, you risk causing a problem where a problem didn't originally exist. Plus, you risk making the code messy where it may have been neat. Why is your client doing conversions from the ePub to ePub? Is something wrong with the original ePub? Does it fail on nook or Kobo?
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:48 AM   #22
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Hi:

(I'm not going to quote you, as that makes my posts look short, which is a true feat.) As our Resident Curmudgeon says, your client is crazy, but we've made books like this, somewhat. There's errata somewhere in your stylesheet, or in the fonts (surprisingly, the latter is possible). It's true that a single error in a stylesheet will cause ADE to fail, and subsequently, Nook. The fact that the serif is not working in both is a "tell." Ditto on the indentation. Somewhere, somehow, you have an ePUB error, in the CSS.

Now, don't rely, please, on the idea that a conversion from an ePUB to MOBI, successful or otherwise, is any indicator of the "goodness" of the ePUB. Alas, 'tis not so. Mobi will convert a completely crappy ePUB that won't pass validation (and does, too, for the media-queries that are used to create K7 & K8 mobis, in fact).

If your book was failing in ADE but not in Nook, or vice-versa, I'd think that something really odd was amiss; but it's going to be something really, really stupid. I don't mean that YOU are stupid; but it's going to be a) you created a boatload of paragraph styles that weren't really cascading, but stood alone; b) you created a type of inline styles with the serif versus the sans-serif, the italicized versus the non, the indented versus the not, the top-margins, etc., and somewhere in that mess is the error for the paragraph styles.

I don't know--I'm guessing, of course--that you created a base p style, and then built on that. For example, using the base p as indented; then a p class (almost always, always, called no-indent or noindent by everyone here) with a text-indent:0 set...but I am feeling like somewhere you cascaded something over something. If you were working in my shop, I'd be doing two things: first, I'd be looking at your stylesheet myself. Second, I'd run your CSS (I can't recall if you did this or not, sorry!) through validation by itself, not ePUB validaiton, but CSS validation, to see if I got an error. I mean...it's almost inevitable that there is a least two typographical errors--missing ; or a missing hyphen, or a missing colon...something, in both one of the paragraph types and one of the font types (if they are not in the same styling--that's not clear to me). One simple typographic error can invalidate your whole stylesheet, or a given style.

Also, when you created certain paragraph styles (for example, one block style in serif, one in sans-serif), you should have left the character/font styling in the text, i.e., using i or em for italics and not creating spans with those styles...I feel like that is likely kicking you out of whack, as well.

Can you post simply the original CSS (pre auto-converters, please)? That's surely not an IP violation of your client's book, and maybe someone here can spot the glitch. If you do, please explicitly tell us which classes aren't working, too, thanks. Otherwise, we're all doing what I'm doing, which is guessing. A sample of one representative page would help, but I know that can be impossible, so we'll understand if you cannot.

I sympathize, I do, more than you know. I have dozens of books like that...shouldn't have been made, shouldn't have been made as they are; I've gotten far, far better about declining books like that, or endeavoring mightily to re-educate the client pre-production. I know what you're going through.

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Old 06-21-2013, 11:40 AM   #23
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Thanks, Hitch and JS. You've given me some important things to think about. My client is going to upload her files to vendors today so I will find out whether or not they will pass. If not, I'll have to revisit them and see if I can address the errors myself or hire someone else to do it.

A couple of things you said that lit some bulbs over my head:
. . . it's going to be a) you created a boatload of paragraph styles that weren't really cascading, but stood alone; b) you created a type of inline styles with the serif versus the sans-serif, the italicized versus the non, the indented versus the not, the top-margins, etc., and somewhere in that mess is the error for the paragraph styles.

You are actually right about this. There is a boatload of paragraph styles--those that I wrote along with "calibre" styles that were introduced in the online-convert.com process. (Apparently they use a calibre-driven conversion.) So I'm guessing that my styles and the calibre styles were doing battle for control. It's the concept of "cascading" where I'm probably screwing up. And I did go back inline to where the calibre styles somehow were misapplied after the conversion to change the p class or p style. (Maybe you could point me to a good online course in writing CSS.)

Second: I don't know--I'm guessing, of course--that you created a base p style, and then built on that. For example, using the base p as indented; then a p class (almost always, always, called no-indent or noindent by everyone here) with a text-indent:0 set...but I am feeling like somewhere you cascaded something over something. If you were working in my shop, I'd be doing two things: first, I'd be looking at your stylesheet myself. Second, I'd run your CSS (I can't recall if you did this or not, sorry!) through validation by itself, not ePUB validaiton, but CSS validation, to see if I got an error. I mean...it's almost inevitable that there is a least two typographical errors--missing ; or a missing hyphen, or a missing colon...something, in both one of the paragraph types and one of the font types (if they are not in the same styling--that's not clear to me). One simple typographic error can invalidate your whole stylesheet, or a given style.

That is how I created the p styles, but I checked very carefully for missing colons and semi-colons, etc., but I still could have missed something. But the idea that I've messed up the "cascading" structure is probably spot on.

I'll let you know if the client succeeds with her uploads . . . In the meantime, I will be searching out more opportunities to learn to do it efficiently and effectively. THANKS!!
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Old 08-03-2013, 11:59 AM   #24
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On the Nook HD+

EditorOne,

I don't know if this is true of other nooks, but I have the nook HD+ and had the same problem. However, I noticed that if you go to the screen where you can change the font family and size, there is a little slide switch at the bottom-right corner that is labeled "Publisher Default". Mine was set to off by default. This meant the nook's built-in stylesheet took precedence. I slid that switch to on and my stylesheet took over, including the embedded font I used and all.

Hope it helps.
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Old 08-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #25
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Thanks, Kendal. My nook color has the same slider, but it still didn't give me the embedded fonts. But no problems any more.

For the benefit of all of you who tried so hard to help me--much of your advice was very helpful--I wanted to let you know that the e- book was successfully published to Kindle, Nook, iPad, and Sony e-reader. Everything worked, so apparently my work-arounds didn't do any harm. I'll do better on the next project. We are doing the same book in print now.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:49 AM   #26
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Thanks, Kendal. My nook color has the same slider, but it still didn't give me the embedded fonts. But no problems any more.

For the benefit of all of you who tried so hard to help me--much of your advice was very helpful--I wanted to let you know that the e- book was successfully published to Kindle, Nook, iPad, and Sony e-reader. Everything worked, so apparently my work-arounds didn't do any harm. I'll do better on the next project. We are doing the same book in print now.
FYI, we've just had a report in today, of "glitches" on a NookHD device, with a sideloaded epub. The ePUB displays the fonts correctly on ADE, and every other e-reader in existence, but not in the NookColorHD. If the client turns on her "Publisher fonts," a font embedded to emulate Courier (because she couldn't see the Courier, either) displays as TNR. If she turns her "Publisher defaults" off, the entire file displays in a sans serif.

Just another special gift from the folks at B&N. First, the ludicrous imposition of their internal CSS atop perfectly good ePUBs, unless you force the issue with "use original file," which B&N tries to hide, and now this. Honestly, you have to wonder, at what point will all of us just give up and only make books with default fonts, plain centered headings without bold, no fleurons (the endless joy with the HD versus non-HD devices at Amazon), and maybe a few italics for flourishes? It gets bloody worse every day. B&N couldn't make a damn device that actually works? A device that at least displays what ADE displays, which is, after all, its engine? The stupid NookColor--not HD--works fine. Naturally, they had to screw that up. B&N, if it ain't broke, don't FIX IT!

ENDLESS. IT'S BLOODY ENDLESS.

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Old 08-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #27
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Honestly, you have to wonder, at what point will all of us just give up and only make books with default fonts, plain centered headings without bold, no fleurons (the endless joy with the HD versus non-HD devices at Amazon), and maybe a few italics for flourishes? ...

Hitch
Actually, I'm sorry to admit, our house is almost at that point already. Fortunately, at least 90% of our books are fiction novels, so there's minimal tricky formatting required. We try to avoid embedded fonts, and stick with fairly simple text formatting that at least offers a tip-of-the-hat to the print book design, and we pretty much target the Kindle devices (albeit in a sort of least-common-denominator sense). That's where most of our market is, by far.

BTW, Back when iPads first came out, many of our authors really wanted to be in the iBookstore. Now, most of them realize where the big money is.

I've come to the conclusion that if I produce a valid epub that conforms to specs, and somebody sells an ereader that claims to display said epub, but doesn't do so properly, that MIGHT be their problem, not mine.

In fact, I'm even beginning to lose sympathy for legacy Kindle devices, now that even the K3 (keyboard) can handle kf8.

Albert
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_albert View Post
Actually, I'm sorry to admit, our house is almost at that point already. Fortunately, at least 90% of our books are fiction novels, so there's minimal tricky formatting required. We try to avoid embedded fonts, and stick with fairly simple text formatting that at least offers a tip-of-the-hat to the print book design, and we pretty much target the Kindle devices (albeit in a sort of least-common-denominator sense). That's where most of our market is, by far.

BTW, Back when iPads first came out, many of our authors really wanted to be in the iBookstore. Now, most of them realize where the big money is.

I've come to the conclusion that if I produce a valid epub that conforms to specs, and somebody sells an ereader that claims to display said epub, but doesn't do so properly, that MIGHT be their problem, not mine.

In fact, I'm even beginning to lose sympathy for legacy Kindle devices, now that even the K3 (keyboard) can handle kf8.

Albert
Albert:

From a business and a "don't yank your hair out of your head" standpoint, that would make sense. But...I just can't bring myself to do it. I can't. I wish I could. I don't claim (mostly) to make books that are haute couture, but we at least try to make them Barney's or Lord & Taylor, not Walmart.

But the damned retailers are practically sticking a knife in our hearts with this s**t. I could not believe this nonsense yesterday. Overriding the stylesheet, somehow? What the frack is up with that? On a side-loaded book? No wonder this poor guy was yanking his damn hair out. Add that crap to the new crap at NookPress--we've had at least 5 clients that ended up with "remade" ePUBs that NookPress kindly "fixed" for them with a completely new stylesheet--and B&N wonders why they can't make up ground?

Yes, our clientele, even the biggest Jobblesheads, have all come to realize that they are wasting their time in the iBookstore. One of our bigger names, who loves her some Mac, and all the i-Things, and had us embed video in every single fiction title early on, so it could be flash at the iBookstore, has now stopped even uploading her books there--and this is a NYTimes Bestselling author/Edgar winner, etc. Man, if she can't sell there....I don't know what can, unless what's selling is the vamp-romance tween stuff that is so popular at Wattpad. {shrug}.

I am really, really frustrated. I don't want to do vanilla, I don't. My bookmakers don't. They're not drones, they're craftswo/men. We really labor over our books. To go in that direction--vanilla--would seriously be a sea-change for us. And, yes, our primary market is fiction, although we also get a fair number of kids' books for fixed-format, and naturally, the non-fiction/complex formatting category; how-to, syllabi, that lot.

Crap.

Hitch
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:11 PM   #29
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You know, I hardly know who to quote here in this reply, but I feel your pain, having struggled with my client's book and finding B&N and Nook to be the greatest obstacle to understanding what I didn't know and needed to know. You folks here were amazing support and help, but I have to say I am not surprised at what you've said here about B&N and Nook.

I, too, don't want to do a "vanilla" format. I think every author I work with deserves to develop his/her own voice (in a visual sense) for ebooks as well as formats that suit the genre and topic.

Sigh . . . .
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
FYI, we've just had a report in today, of "glitches" on a NookHD device, with a sideloaded epub. The ePUB displays the fonts correctly on ADE, and every other e-reader in existence, but not in the NookColorHD. If the client turns on her "Publisher fonts," a font embedded to emulate Courier (because she couldn't see the Courier, either) displays as TNR. If she turns her "Publisher defaults" off, the entire file displays in a sans serif.

... snip ...

The stupid NookColor--not HD--works fine. Naturally, they had to screw that up. B&N, if it ain't broke, don't FIX IT!

ENDLESS. IT'S BLOODY ENDLESS.

Hitch
A good discussion of the why of Publisher Defaults is here

and for this the Nook Color should be working roughly the same as the HD as long as you are using the latest firmware on the Color.
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