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Old 05-19-2013, 11:03 PM   #1
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Question Sigil epub doesn't work on Nook

I think I read somewhere here on this forum that when you upload to Nook (and apparently when you put an epub on your own Nook device), it dumps your stylesheet and replaces it with their generic one.

I think that must be very accurate because when my epub file (created by Sigil from a Calibre conversion--don't get me started on all the unnecessary junk that is in a Calibre conversion) is converted to mobi through KindleGen, it comes out perfect on the Kindle Previewer (all devices), but when I download the same file to my Nook Color, the entire layout is changed. There are spaces between paragraphs where I didn't put spaces, there are no spaces between headings and paragraphs, where I did put spaces (breaks) and none of the headings are flush left, they are indented just like the paragraphs (2em). (Mine were indented further because of a picky client who wants her ebook to look EXACTLY like her MS Word file. Geesh!)

What can I do to fix the epub so it actually works on epub readers other than to go back to square one? It's strange that Kindles have no problem.

PS. The Calibre conversion also kept a massive amount of MSword tags even though they had been "cleaned" by the online cleaner. If I totally remove all formatting I have a massive job of restoring her italics and non-italics within italic paragraphs, non-italic paragraphs with italics inside . . . DON'T ASK.

Any thoughts?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:43 PM   #2
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This appears to be a Nook question. Moved to the Nook forum.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:11 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EditorOne View Post
I think I read somewhere here on this forum that when you upload to Nook (and apparently when you put an epub on your own Nook device), it dumps your stylesheet and replaces it with their generic one.

...
I don't have a Nook, but the publisher I work for sells epubs into the Nook market, so I'm very interested in what you said above.

That said, are you sure that Nook intentionally replaces the ebook's CSS file with their own generic one in all cases? Were it to do so, I would think that would cause massive formatting problems for any and all epubs that were not prepared with a stylesheet exactly like the Nook's. Just as you describe. Yet we haven't seen any such complaints -- so far.

I'm not trying to dispute your statement; I have no knowledge to the contrary, but I do think it's quite bizare, if true.

I have an alternate hypothesis which you can check.

I believe the Nook uses the Adobe Digital Editions engine (an early version, IIRC), and ADE is notorious for completely ignoring a CSS stylesheet that has even the most trivial error in it.

So, two things you can do to check out this possibility:

1) How does your epub display in the stand-alone Adobe Digital Editions reader (installed on a Windows PC)? If it's correct, you've shot down my hypothesis. If it's not correct...

2) check out the epub's stylesheet with the W3C CSS validator online. Note that CSS level 2.1 is the most appropriate level for epub 2.0, but if you have embedded font declarations the validator will complain about them even though they work in epub.

HTH,

Albert
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_albert View Post
I don't have a Nook, but the publisher I work for sells epubs into the Nook market, so I'm very interested in what you said above.

That said, are you sure that Nook intentionally replaces the ebook's CSS file with their own generic one in all cases? Were it to do so, I would think that would cause massive formatting problems for any and all epubs that were not prepared with a stylesheet exactly like the Nook's. Just as you describe. Yet we haven't seen any such complaints -- so far.

I'm not trying to dispute your statement; I have no knowledge to the contrary, but I do think it's quite bizare, if true.

I have an alternate hypothesis which you can check.

I believe the Nook uses the Adobe Digital Editions engine (an early version, IIRC), and ADE is notorious for completely ignoring a CSS stylesheet that has even the most trivial error in it.

So, two things you can do to check out this possibility:

1) How does your epub display in the stand-alone Adobe Digital Editions reader (installed on a Windows PC)? If it's correct, you've shot down my hypothesis. If it's not correct...

2) check out the epub's stylesheet with the W3C CSS validator online. Note that CSS level 2.1 is the most appropriate level for epub 2.0, but if you have embedded font declarations the validator will complain about them even though they work in epub.

HTH,

Albert
Hey, Albert!

I've never had this occur, and never had a customer tell me that there was an issue reported with an ePUB post-upload. Our ePUBs look the same on the NookColor as they do in ADE, as they do in Nook4PC (worst desktop reader ever invented), on the iBooks app on iPad, etc. Something is not right with the OP's stylesheet, that's causing an issue.

I mean, think about what this would mean if it were true; it would mean that every ePUB uploaded at PubIt/now NookPress would change, essentially, post-upload. As they initially required ePUBs, not Word files (granted, this changed, but still...) that doesn't make a lot of sense. It would be like Kobo; require ePUBs and then run 'em through the Calibre API, anyway. (One hopes that's changed or changing.)

So, to the OP, EditorOne: I really suggest you do as Albert recommends; look over that ss. Something is invalidating it, and at that point, all bets are off, because, yes, ADE does immediately discard errata.

Hope that helps.

Hitch
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:56 PM   #5
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@Hitch,
Thanks for confirming that. As I said, it seemd improbable, but, who was it who said "Many things are too strange to be believed, but nothing is too strange to be true"?

Albert
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_albert View Post
@Hitch,
Thanks for confirming that. As I said, it seemd improbable, but, who was it who said "Many things are too strange to be believed, but nothing is too strange to be true"?

Albert
Albert:

Oh, hell. Nooks and ADE have done many strange things in my time making ebooks; e.g., the infamous "hypenate when you run out of room, not when you have an opportune syllable for headers" problem. That was a doozy. And who'da thunk that? On this one, however, I have not seen any indication that files 'change' when sideloaded to a Nook device nor when uploaded at the NookPress f/k/a PubIt Platform; I can confirm that. A goodly chunk of our clients have their books only up on Amazon, and either did not upload to or subsequently removed from sale, books on B&N, but we probably still have somewhere in the vicinity of 800-1,000 books up there. I would have expected to have heard something about dramatically changing formats by now, at least once, if this had a device- or platform-based cause, other than, something invalid in the ss. That's my thinking, anyway. ;-0

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Old 05-20-2013, 06:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Albert:

I would have expected to have heard something about dramatically changing formats by now, at least once, if this had a device- or platform-based cause, other than, something invalid in the ss. That's my thinking, anyway. ;-0

Hitch
Me too. In fact I'd have expected crowds of angry villagers waving Nooks, pitchforks, and torches by now.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #8
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Me too. In fact I'd have expected crowds of angry villagers waving Nooks, pitchforks, and torches by now.
OMG, is that what that noise is outside my turret? Dang! Time to break out the
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EditorOne View Post
I think I read somewhere here on this forum that when you upload to Nook (and apparently when you put an epub on your own Nook device), it dumps your stylesheet and replaces it with their generic one.

I think that must be very accurate because when my epub file (created by Sigil from a Calibre conversion--don't get me started on all the unnecessary junk that is in a Calibre conversion) is converted to mobi through Kindle Gen, it comes out perfect on the Kindle Previewer (all devices), but when I download the same file to my Nook Color, the entire layout is changed. There are spaces between paragraphs where I didn't put spaces, there are no spaces between headings and paragraphs, where I did put spaces (breaks) and none of the headings are flush left, they are indented just like the paragraphs (2em). (Mine were indented further because of a picky client who wants her ebook to look EXACTLY like her MS Word file. Geesh!)

What can I do to fix the epub so it actually works on epub readers other than to go back to square one? It's strange that Kindles have no problem.

PS. The Calibre conversion also kept a massive amount of MSword tags even though they had been "cleaned" by the online cleaner. If I totally remove all formatting I have a massive job of restoring her italics and non-italics within italic paragraphs, non-italic paragraphs with italics inside . . . DON'T ASK.

Any thoughts?
The problem you describe is what ade does when you have a missing ( ; ) , ( { ), ( } ) or have text that not enclosed. Check your css for missing or extra separators or enclosing element. Ade defauts to what you are seeing.

Code:
sample good css
.p {
    text-indent: 1.2em;
    }
sample bad css
.p 
   text-indent: 1.2em;
   }
bernie

p.s.
MSword = garbage in garbage out.

When you put it thru Kindle Gen it built its' on css.

Last edited by gbm; 05-20-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:40 PM   #10
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Nook and CSS changes

Thanks, Albert and Hitch.
I have searched for the original post that I read--stupidly, I didn't copy the poster's info, just the text. But, that said, I completely redid my stylesheet to eliminate all of the msword and caliber crap that filled it with useless codes that did nothing. My "clean" stylesheet validates at W3C CSS Validator: "This document validates as CSS level 3 !"

The epub converts on Kindle Previewer and shows up on Kindle Devices as laid out. On my own Nook device and on ADE it is changed. See screenshots (if I uploaded them correctly--if not, I'll try again). Anyway, on ADE and the Nook the text is flush left, ragged right, space between each paragraph, no indentations. Converted for Kindle (KF8 and mobi), the text appears exactly as designed in the style sheet: first paragraph, not indented, subsequent paragraphs indented, spaces created with padding before and after headings.

I have ebooks from BN on my Nook that have the layout I am trying to get. I've gotten books from Gutenberg and pirated CSS from them, but it still doesn't show properly in my own previewing. Should I just take a chance that when my client uploads to BN it will work?
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #11
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Thanks. I'll go back and check for those pesky semi-colons.
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EditorOne View Post
Thanks, Albert and Hitch.
I have searched for the original post that I read--stupidly, I didn't copy the poster's info, just the text. But, that said, I completely redid my stylesheet to eliminate all of the msword and caliber crap that filled it with useless codes that did nothing. My "clean" stylesheet validates at W3C CSS Validator: "This document validates as CSS level 3 !"

The epub converts on Kindle Previewer and shows up on Kindle Devices as laid out. On my own Nook device and on ADE it is changed. See screenshots (if I uploaded them correctly--if not, I'll try again). Anyway, on ADE and the Nook the text is flush left, ragged right, space between each paragraph, no indentations. Converted for Kindle (KF8 and mobi), the text appears exactly as designed in the style sheet: first paragraph, not indented, subsequent paragraphs indented, spaces created with padding before and after headings.

I have ebooks from BN on my Nook that have the layout I am trying to get. I've gotten books from Gutenberg and pirated CSS from them, but it still doesn't show properly in my own previewing. Should I just take a chance that when my client uploads to BN it will work?
I tested W3C CSS Validator using a css with no errors and then deleted a semi-colon in the css, passed css validator, but showed the same results in ADE that you have.
ADE will fail on missing semi-colons.

bernie
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by EditorOne View Post
I think I read somewhere here on this forum that when you upload to Nook (and apparently when you put an epub on your own Nook device), it dumps your stylesheet and replaces it with their generic one.
That's rubbish. I have a nook STR and it does not dump the CSS on sideloaded ePub.

What you should do is check your ePub with ADE (desktop) and see what you get. That too will fail to show the formatting if there is an error in the CSS.

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Old 05-31-2013, 01:24 PM   #14
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Thanks for the experiment. I will double check the stylesheet (again) just to make sure. I'll let you know how I do.
Thanks.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:02 PM   #15
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Hey, Guys,
Just when I thought it was getting better . . . Well, you know . . .

Never did really solve the issue of my epubs not working on my Nook or in ADE in terms of the layout. It's interesting, that the same epub (created on Sigil) that will convert to mobi or azw via KindlePreviewer will turn out perfect on Kindle devices, won't work on an epub device.

Checked for missing semicolons and other issues in my stylesheet, but as a newbie, I'm sure there are things I haven't quite figured out. But even with all the semi-colons in their proper place, still no dice.

Tried something new: I took my mobi file (created by KindlePreviewer/KindleGen) and went to www.online-convert.com. Converted it from mobi to epub. Guess what! When I put it on my Nook device, it was perfect!!!

So far, so good, right? But no, let's throw in the next issue.

I had to go back through the epub file--which was lovely and the stylesheet only had a handful of Calibre codes (unlike the conversion done on Calibre, which had almost 200!!--I know, I know . . . I still don't know how to produce a clean file with a clean stylesheet . . .). I needed to do some typo repairs and spacing repairs, etc., with Sigil. When I did the check with Sigil, I got the following message (for EVERY h2 in the document): attribute 'data-AmznRemoved' is not declared for element 'h2'. I had seen this in the code view, but didn't know what to make of it.

I am removing all of those elements from the code and will probably do the same procedure (convert to mobi via KPreviewer, followed by convert to epub via the online converter) to see what happens next.

Any ideas??? (anybody know where I can buy a stylesheet that fits my client's very complicated layout???)
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