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Old 05-15-2013, 09:21 PM   #16
crich70
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You're not honestly suggesting that all investigations into price-fixing, collusion, anti-trust violations, and all other potentially illegal business practices (for which the govt actually HAS jurisdiction) should cease entirely are you?

Comparing what went on here to "a private business raising prices" is disingenuous at best. There'd be nothing to investigate if a (singular) business raised its prices. An industry, comprised of many businesses, raised their prices... and possibly coerced some of those individual businesses to do so in the process.

But by all means, let's stop looking into any of that sort of nonsense altogether. It's not likely anyone would take advantage of that kind of moratorium or anything.
No I'm not suggesting that. Just that it seems a bit hypocritical of them to accuse Apple of such things when the Fed. Government does far worse. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Especially as the Government can't seem to figure out basic math. I don't like the prices of ebooks and how they seem to be inflated by price fixing or whatever either, but they won't bring down the economy either.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:04 PM   #17
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No one is saying that our government, or any government, is a model of consistency. But there have been times when the government acts in the best interest of its people, e.g., oulawing slavery, granting women the right to vote, and creating a national health insurance plan. Apple is only consistent in its dogmatism- banning Flash on the ipad, but allowing it on Macs, eliminating cursor keys in its mobile devices, preventing easy access to its file system, and forcing users of its products to use iTunes for transferring songs, books and videos into an iphone, ipod, and ipad. Apple rarely acts in the best interest of the public, only for the best interests of the Board of Directors and management. Notice I did not say shareholders.

We have a court system in this country, and if Apple is not guilty of price fixing, then it has nothing to worry about. The DOJ does not usually file frivolous lawsuits. There is evidence that the FBI has collected that merits a suit. This is not a vendetta by the administration that was started because Apple did not donate enough money to the party in power.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:07 PM   #18
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They must feel strongly that they are in the right as settling would probably have been cheaper.
Or the terms to settle may have included some intolerable conditions.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #19
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. This is not a vendetta by the administration that was started because Apple did not donate enough money to the party in power.
Or because a competitor *was* a major campaign fundraiser.
This case is so blatant that if they hadn't sued it would've been a total abdication of their duties.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:21 PM   #20
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Or the terms to settle may have included some intolerable conditions.
My own personal opinion is that this is a case of utter arrogance, and contempt for the rules.

Apple doesn't need any "stinking" rules!
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:57 AM   #21
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This case is so blatant that if they hadn't sued it would've been a total abdication of their duties.
↑ this.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:29 AM   #22
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No I'm not suggesting that. Just that it seems a bit hypocritical of them to accuse Apple of such things when the Fed. Government does far worse. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Especially as the Government can't seem to figure out basic math. I don't like the prices of ebooks and how they seem to be inflated by price fixing or whatever either, but they won't bring down the economy either.
Your argument uses the false dichotomy fallacy to...you know what, nevermind. I think this sums up what I was going to say:

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Old 05-16-2013, 07:57 AM   #23
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No I'm not suggesting that. Just that it seems a bit hypocritical of them to accuse Apple of such things when the Fed. Government does far worse. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Especially as the Government can't seem to figure out basic math. I don't like the prices of ebooks and how they seem to be inflated by price fixing or whatever either, but they won't bring down the economy either.

Maybe if "the Government" were a single entity, but the U.S. Justice Dept has pretty much nothing to do with deciding who gets tax breaks.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:59 AM   #24
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They must feel strongly that they are in the right as settling would probably have been cheaper.
You obviously don't know Apple well, it's always the someone elses fault ex:you are all holding it wrong, no respect at all for that company was only a few months back they were trying to patent Samsung's flexible oled screens which they have nothing to do with whatsoever.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:05 AM   #25
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No I'm not suggesting that. Just that it seems a bit hypocritical of them to accuse Apple of such things when the Fed. Government does far worse. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. Especially as the Government can't seem to figure out basic math. I don't like the prices of ebooks and how they seem to be inflated by price fixing or whatever either, but they won't bring down the economy either.
So in other words: until something that's NOT going to happen--happens... let's give companies free rein to conduct business any way they see fit--with absolutely no oversight. That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:08 AM   #26
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Here's an email from Steve Jobs to Harper Collins that forms part of the DOJ's material:



Sure, it looks like price collusion between competitors, but Apple had to do it to stop big bad Amazon! Why can't the DOJ just leave Apple alone?! /s


Edit

Judging from comments on a few sites, a lot of people don't understand why the above email is a problem. Essentially, it evidences the fact that Apple was colluding with publishers (who are all competitors) to fix prices at a higher level; schemes like this are illegal under competition law as they harm consumers and distort the market by artificially raising prices. An agreement to do this does not have to be in writing to be illegal. Depending on your jurisdiction, discussions about price by competitors (especially where those competitors form a dominant part of the market) can be per se criminal offences.

This also demonstrates a really weak compliance culture at Apple and the publishers, and the inside counsel for each should be ashamed by their failure. Organizations as large as these should make sure everyone has competition law training, and management understands that certain topics or courses of dealing when discussing matters with competitors (even at industry association meetings) are completely off-limits.

Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 05-16-2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:45 AM   #27
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I fully expect Apple to eventually employ the "but the guy who orchestrated all this is dead now!" defense.
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Old 05-16-2013, 10:12 AM   #28
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the "this is so old why bother with it" defense is being bandied about quite alot by bad actors these days too.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:27 AM   #29
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I fully expect Apple to eventually employ the "but the guy who orchestrated all this is dead now!" defense.
I look forward to Apple throwing Steve Jobs's corpse under the first available bus.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:58 AM   #30
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This also demonstrates a really weak compliance culture at Apple and the publishers, and the inside counsel for each should be ashamed by their failure. Organizations as large as these should make sure everyone has competition law training, and management understands that certain topics or courses of dealing when discussing matters with competitors (even at industry association meetings) are completely off-limits.
Compliance culture and training? Steve was CEO, he knew. Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi, that's what this e-mail demonstrates, IMHO.
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