Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #196
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 61,991
Karma: 39190347
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeera View Post
In my jurisdiction, fine print is invalid if it contradicts the large print. I click a "BUY NOW" button on Amazon, not a "Lease Now". Clicking on the "How Buying Works" button gives further text which uses the word "purchase" repeatedly, with nary a "lease" or "license" or "rent" in sight. This particular example is untested in court, but I'm not calling it a foregone conclusion - tech companies have been hammered here on similarly misleading marketing, when they've tried to claim that the customer shoulda read the fine print.
You are buying a licence, just as you are with a paper book. When you buy a paper book you're buying a set of very restricted rights, too. You buy the paper, ink, and glue. You don't buy any rights to the contents of the book, and you are VERY restricted in what you're legally allowed to do with it. Bookstores don't explicitly tell you this - it falls into the category of "stuff the buyer is expected to know".

Last edited by HarryT; 05-12-2013 at 08:03 AM.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 06:00 AM   #197
Sregener
Addict
Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sregener ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sregener's Avatar
 
Posts: 228
Karma: 1592678
Join Date: Mar 2011
Device: Kindle 4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
You are buying a licence, just as you are with a paper book.
No, you are not buying a license when you buy a paper book. You are buying a copyrighted work, which comes with certain use restrictions (e.g. making copies without permission.) However, the physical book is quite literally yours. You can sell it, loan it, donate it to a library, and so on.

No one has the right to enter your home and remove it from your home, even if it was later determined that the store you purchased the book from had, in fact, stolen the books from another source. In other words, the "license" you seem to think books come with cannot be revoked, even if you violated the terms of that license. Thus, it is ownership in the real sense.
Sregener is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 05-13-2013, 07:27 AM   #198
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,023
Karma: 33507799
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sregener View Post
Thus, it is ownership in the real sense.
No, it has to do more with posession of a phyisical object, and calling an ebook purchase "ownership" would not magically transfer that property to an intangible object.

You buy a train or plane ticket, but the line can still deny you passage for various reasons, and it has nothing to do with the fact they can't reach into your wallet and actually take the ticket. They can enforce that the passage is not transferable regardless of what first sale doctrine might say about the piece of cardboard in your wallet.

This is what you...and seemingly everyone hung up on "ownership"... are not getting. Calling it "ownership" doesn't NOT magically give you the same rights and properties over an intangible construct as it gives you over a physical object.

And it never will, and it never should because the inherent properties are different.
Vive la difference.
Heck. If the same rules magically did apply, then you would not be able download a second copy, read online or get any other benefit of digital cloud storage. Hey, you lose the copy of a book you 'own' you don't get to walk into a store a grab a free replacement, do you? You want to insist on identical rules without rationale, the you'd have to take it both ways.

It's our actual rights over the ebook we need to be working to adjust.
We mustn't be deluded and distracted into thinking that a meaningless equating of terms between things that can't be directly equated will magically give us those rights.

ApK
ApK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 04:33 PM   #199
MerLock
Evangelist
MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MerLock ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 411
Karma: 1034889
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: none
Be intersting if publishers did an experiment. Like lower the prices of ebooks below the print version and make it DRM free. I'll be curious of sales would go up, down or remain the same.

People can dispute "owernship" as much as they like but I do feel like DRM ebooks are more difficult to lend/sell than a paper book. With a paper book, I can give it to anyone without considering if they own an ereader, if it's compatible with the one they have or if the DRM will allow me to transfer it over to them.
MerLock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 05:51 PM   #200
spindlegirl
Grand Scheme of Things
spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
spindlegirl's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,232
Karma: 9848175
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near a Tim Hortons, most likely.
Device: Sony PRS-T2 (Black), K4, Moonreader pro on my LG Nexus 4 phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerLock View Post
People can dispute "owernship" as much as they like but I do feel like DRM ebooks are more difficult to lend/sell than a paper book. With a paper book, I can give it to anyone without considering if they own an ereader, if it's compatible with the one they have or if the DRM will allow me to transfer it over to them.
Karma points for that one. I don't have to consider ANYthing when transferring a physical book to someone. I don't even have to know the person's name. I can just say, "Hey, like this book? Yours!" and walk off with a smile on my face.
spindlegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 08:55 AM   #201
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,645
Karma: 85060444
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerLock View Post
Be intersting if publishers did an experiment. Like lower the prices of ebooks below the print version and make it DRM free. I'll be curious of sales would go up, down or remain the same.
Tor have been selling their Books DRM-free for nearly a year now, after previously selling them with DRM. So far they haven't noticed any difference.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #202
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,023
Karma: 33507799
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
Tor have been selling their Books DRM-free for nearly a year now, after previously selling them with DRM. So far they haven't noticed any difference.
Tor may not be representative of the general eBook market, but their experience is certainly more encouraging then if they had seen the opposite.

I also note that while some sources have altered their business model by doing stuff like raising prices, or stopping giving so much away for free, or gotten out of the business entirely, I'm not aware of any source who sold books without DRM, and then said "you know, this just isn't working...we're going to add DRM."
Places notable for selling books DRM free--O'Reilly, Smashwords, Baen, etc. -- are all still doing it.

I think on the whole that says something.

Last edited by ApK; 05-14-2013 at 08:09 PM.
ApK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 10:47 AM   #203
emoorman
Obsessive Reader
emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.emoorman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
emoorman's Avatar
 
Posts: 71
Karma: 515292
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Shalimar, FL (in the panhandle)
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, Kindle 4PC, 4Nexus 7, 4 Nokia
I buy electronic

Going back to the original question, I don't need any more paper books. I have a wall full of them. If there's a book I want to read, ebook is my only choice, unless it isn't available. it is just too convenient to have the book on several ereader devices.

Yes, I grit my teeth when I see a $14.99 ebook price and I usually wait for a month or so to see if the price goes down. it usually does. I still don't waant to miss a book from a favorite author. in the mean time, there are many good reads for $3.99 or less on Amazon and other book sellers.
emoorman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #204
AnemicOak
Bookaholic
AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AnemicOak ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
AnemicOak's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,900
Karma: 27719999
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Minnesota
Device: HDX 8.9, AuraHD, Nook HD+, Kindle 2,3,T , Opus, Nexus7, iPhone5, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
Tor have been selling their Books DRM-free for nearly a year now, after previously selling them with DRM. So far they haven't noticed any difference.
They only did the DRM Free part, not the lower price part. They've only become non-Agency recently.
AnemicOak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
eBook Price elasticity: Volume=f(price) fjtorres General Discussions 22 07-28-2012 08:57 PM
Where do you buy used *PRINT* books? menevets Lounge 8 12-21-2011 12:30 PM
'What Price Liberty' available pre-publication as variable price ebook garygibsonsf Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 2 11-04-2010 10:38 PM
Print vs Pixel: retailers experiment with print/ebook bundles DMcCunney General Discussions 42 09-15-2010 11:29 AM
eBook price vs pBook price--is that fair?? rlparker Amazon Kindle 11 10-06-2008 11:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:41 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.