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Old 04-25-2013, 04:05 AM   #46
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I am rather confused with what you are saying.
Gravity is constant.
always pulls down rock and dirt and human structure.
also stock prices

Last edited by forsooth; 04-28-2013 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:15 AM   #47
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I think apples definitely on a serious decline even the biggest IOS gaming forum recently opened a Android gaming section and I'd never have predicted that as it was a pretty hostile place to even mention Android a year ago.

Apple's actually started to become so little a threat that now on most tech sites Android users are fighting with each other instead HTC v Samsung seems to be the big battle at the minute.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:20 AM   #48
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I think apples definitely on a serious decline even the biggest IOS gaming forum recently opened a Android gaming section and I'd never have predicted that as it was a pretty hostile place to even mention Android a year ago.

Apple's actually started to become so little a threat that now on most tech sites Android users are fighting with each other instead HTC v Samsung seems to be the big battle at the minute.
more interest in NASCAR than F1

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Old 04-25-2013, 06:45 AM   #49
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It took Jobs to take the concept, make it workable, and market it; but the fact remains it’s still evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

What's amazing is that he could sell old ideas and make people think he invented them.
I think you're missing the point of what Apple did and continues to do. They put usability at the top of the feature list. They spend a tremendous amount of time and effort making sure everything they do works with the human interface. What made the iPod amazing wasn't that it could play MP3s, what made it amazing is that it made it so easy for people who weren't technical to do it.

The iPad took the world by storm for a bunch of reasons, and they were all innovative. Why 10"? Because that's the ideal tablet interface size. Just read from the people who find the iPad Mini to be lacking for some uses. Why a 4:3 form factor? Because it works the best for how people want information presented.

And then there's IOS. Sure, there were other mobile OSs out there, but none had the consistent user interface that made it so easy to do things with. The interface elements were consistent across all apps made by many different companies. That only serves to increase usability.

Physically, these devices have been made to be pleasant to hold. They look good. They feel good.

Now, we can all say, "Oh, they just took a bunch of good ideas, cobbled them together, and it's not really anything new." Just like the Model T wasn't really original...
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:56 AM   #50
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more interest in NASCAR than F1
Only in the US.

Apple = NASCAR. Simplistic, outdated, but a good product that is especially appealing for the unsophisticated.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:11 AM   #51
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Only in the US.

Apple = NASCAR. Simplistic, outdated, but a good product that is especially appealing for the unsophisticated.
Wow, so patronising and in only one sentence... strangely enough Apple appeals strongly to people who want to do things with their computers/tablets rather than be "into" computers/tablets but if wanting a tool to do a job is "simplistic and unsophisticated" then bring it on...

I'm not sure what's so sophisticated about Android though, I like using my Nexus 7 and Galaxy II but I don't think it's particularly sophisticated having to try removing a load of unwanted junk that clutters up both devices whereas the iPad just required a few apps installed to do what I wanted... still if you want to keep promulgating the whole "anti-Apple," "Anti-Android," "mine's better than yours" etc...
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:35 AM   #52
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Wow, so patronising and in only one sentence... strangely enough Apple appeals strongly to people who want to do things with their computers/tablets rather than be "into" computers/tablets but if wanting a tool to do a job is "simplistic and unsophisticated" then bring it on...

I'm not sure what's so sophisticated about Android though, I like using my Nexus 7 and Galaxy II but I don't think it's particularly sophisticated having to try removing a load of unwanted junk that clutters up both devices whereas the iPad just required a few apps installed to do what I wanted... still if you want to keep promulgating the whole "anti-Apple," "Anti-Android," "mine's better than yours" etc...
Good grief, get a grip, I didn't make the original comparison and was simply having a little fun. You're the one trying to turn it into a full argument. If you really want to go there, I will, but I think it's been done enough.

For the record, when I just want to get things done, I use my Surface. Neither Android or iOS are all that capable of real computing. Not that the Surface is perfect either.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #53
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pl001, if that was fun fine but it didn't come over that way, just as a statement... and, as a matter of interest, what is the "real computing" that requires something other than iOS or Android - it's a phrase that seems to occur all the time but nobody really says what the "real" is...
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #54
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pl001, if that was fun fine but it didn't come over that way, just as a statement... and, as a matter of interest, what is the "real computing" that requires something other than iOS or Android - it's a phrase that seems to occur all the time but nobody really says what the "real" is...
Basically it comes down to Office or anything that requires significant typing and connecting periphrials like projectors, thumb drives, printers, etc. Plus split screen multitasking, file management, and remote controlling PCs. A lot of that stuff can be done on other devices, but in most cases not nearly as well or as easily. iOS relies almost completely on apps and proprietary accessories for a lot of basic funtionality, where as RT/8 builds most of it into the OS.

Overall Windows8/RT works great for a lot of stuff despite its flaws and in my opinion has a lot more long-term potential than iOS. Whether or not Microsoft gets their heads out of you-know-where and starts addressing the obvious mistakes they have made, well that's another matter.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #55
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iOS relies almost completely on apps and proprietary accessories for a lot of basic funtionality, where as RT/8 builds most of it into the OS.
I'd put OS X up against anything Microsoft has ever dreamt up. And I'm right now writing this using OS X 10.5.8 on a PowerBook G4, which is faster and more capable than any modern tablet. It still works great, over 8 years after it was built. My iPad 1, however, is largely broken by the IOS ecosystem that saddles me to a memory leak in the last version of IOS supported by the original iPad. Oh, and I bought the PowerBook used on eBay for $150.

People want sexy and portable, not functional. Tablets will never be primarily about productivity.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:13 PM   #56
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I'd put OS X up against anything Microsoft has ever dreamt up. And I'm right now writing this using OS X 10.5.8 on a PowerBook G4, which is faster and more capable than any modern tablet. It still works great, over 8 years after it was built. My iPad 1, however, is largely broken by the IOS ecosystem that saddles me to a memory leak in the last version of IOS supported by the original iPad. Oh, and I bought the PowerBook used on eBay for $150.

People want sexy and portable, not functional. Tablets will never be primarily about productivity.
OSX on a laptop is not suitable for touch screen mobile use. It's not competing for the same buyers as Win8/RT is.

Tablets are primarily about mobility and ease of use and will never replace PCs completely. But Microsoft has shown they can indeed meet the productivity needs of the vast majority of people, and Apple has shown us just how large that market is.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:38 PM   #57
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Gravity is constant.
always pulls down rock and dirt and human structure.
also stock prices
I think you are oversimplifying here. Sure gravity keeps pulling things down, but apple stock's problem isn't gravity, as much as St. Paul's Cathedral seems to be doing just fine (as are the heads of those within it) despite gravity pulling it down.
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #58
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I think you're missing the point of what Apple did and continues to do. They put usability at the top of the feature list. They spend a tremendous amount of time and effort making sure everything they do works with the human interface. What made the iPod amazing wasn't that it could play MP3s, what made it amazing is that it made it so easy for people who weren't technical to do it.

The iPad took the world by storm for a bunch of reasons, and they were all innovative. Why 10"? Because that's the ideal tablet interface size. Just read from the people who find the iPad Mini to be lacking for some uses. Why a 4:3 form factor? Because it works the best for how people want information presented.

And then there's IOS. Sure, there were other mobile OSs out there, but none had the consistent user interface that made it so easy to do things with. The interface elements were consistent across all apps made by many different companies. That only serves to increase usability.

Physically, these devices have been made to be pleasant to hold. They look good. They feel good.

Now, we can all say, "Oh, they just took a bunch of good ideas, cobbled them together, and it's not really anything new." Just like the Model T wasn't really original...
I am apple's no. 1 critic on a series of fronts, and no one can be a better critic than someone who's invested so much in their ecosystem and follows what they have been doing for the past 15 or so years. The last thing one can claim (despite it having stagnated for a while now, ios that is) that the ipad with ios wasn't a truly revolutionary/evolutionary device with so much effort and care having put into it. I think it's apple's it just works motto personified. You really can't make something as capable as the ipad, more simple than what it is. It was the culmination of years of creative work, and the epitome of the jobsian ethos of ease of use. And that's something really, really hard to come up with.

You pick up any android tablet and it's still a mess of conflicting ui ideas, and mind you, that's coming from someone who thinks android has surpassed ios in many ways and will be looking to buy an android device next.
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:52 AM   #59
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I think you are oversimplifying here. Sure gravity keeps pulling things down, but apple stock's problem isn't gravity, as much as St. Paul's Cathedral seems to be doing just fine (as are the heads of those within it) despite gravity pulling it down.
To paraphrase, "I know gravity!"

And now I will tackle what I think is a metaphor.

I will guess that forsooth means that there is a constant pull down on Apple stock. That something like "good news," "new products," "failure of competitors" must keep pumping an upward draft to hold the stock up.

It won't just float up there continually because it is there. Apple must work to keep it up there.

i.e. If I give out of fuel, my engine stops, my ride stops, my aircraft drops.

So what kind of "nitro" is Apple going to put in its fuel tank?
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Old 04-26-2013, 05:11 AM   #60
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Ok sure, although the engine example has to do with inertia. My point was that not only have they not being fueling the engine, they've also been stepping on the brakes due to a series of misteps
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