Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #16
jersysman
Wizard
jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jersysman ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
jersysman's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,661
Karma: 3682230
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Device: T1 Red, Kindle Fire, Kindle PW, PW2, Nook HD+, Kobo Mini, Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
They can't forbid you, and they aren't forbidding you. They are saying that if you stray from the rules they've set, they reserve the right to turn your Glass into a brick.
...And a very expensive brick it would be!
jersysman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #17
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,068
Karma: 33514047
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post
this. its a closed controlled beta/developer program.
+1.
Sure seems that way. If the language should make it into the terms of the mass market version, I'd be more concerned. Right now, though, it seems non-Evil.
ApK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #18
Ntsimp
Zealot
Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 141
Karma: 1215642
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Utah
Device: iriver Story HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Same with a paperback, for that matter. You own the wood pulp, not the content.
If that were true, you couldn't resell the paperback without the copyright holder's permission.

Nope, I own my pbooks.
Ntsimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 04:07 PM   #19
Phogg
PHD in Horribleness
Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Phogg ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Phogg's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,601
Karma: 17119218
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: In the ironbound section, near avenue L
Device: Just a whole bunch. I guess I am a collector now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfwreck View Post
Until someone jailbreaks them, I suppose, and figures out how to run them with a different OS and a different cloud storage setup.
That is likely to take several weeks.
You have a brick until then.
Phogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #20
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,068
Karma: 33514047
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntsimp View Post
If that were true, you couldn't resell the paperback without the copyright holder's permission.

Nope, I own my pbooks.
No, not true at all. Read the copyright page, there's several terms of your license spelled out. Your're not allowed to sell copies of the content or make a movie out the story, for example.

Surely you can understand the idea that different licenses for different things have different terms. The license to have have a copy of, and read the content of, your paperback book applies to the holder of the physical copy, as laid out in copyright law. The license for the content of the ebook form, is not usually transferable. That detail does not change the fact of it's nature.

Once people understand this reality, we can band together to force a change in the licenses terms in our favor.

While people still cry erroneous claims of "ownership", pleas for change are easily dismissed as ignorant ranting.

Last edited by ApK; 04-19-2013 at 04:28 PM.
ApK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 05:49 PM   #21
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,692
Karma: 33379200
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
+1.
Sure seems that way. If the language should make it into the terms of the mass market version, I'd be more concerned. Right now, though, it seems non-Evil.
Google does this in basis of a ruling from 2010, as was stated in the article quoted in the OP. Ruling:
Quote:
Timothy Vernor purchased several used copies of Autodesk, Inc.’s AutoCAD Release 14 software (“Release14”) from one of Autodesk’s direct customers, and he resold the Release 14 copies on eBay. Vernor brought this declaratory judgment action against Autodesk to establish that these resales did not infringe Autodesk’s copyright. The district court issued the requested declaratory judgment, holding that Vernor’s sales were lawful because of two of the Copyright Act’s affirmative defenses that apply to owners of copies of copyrighted works, the first sale doctrine and the essential step defense.

Autodesk distributes Release 14 pursuant to a limited license agreement in which it reserves title to the software copies and imposes significant use and transfer restrictions on its customers. We determine that Autodesk’s direct customers are licensees of their copies of the software rather than owners, which has two ramifications. Because Vernor did not purchase the Release 14 copies from an owner, he may not invoke the first sale doctrine, and he also may not assert an essential step defense on behalf of his customers. For these reasons, we vacate the district court’s grant of summary judgment to Vernor and remand for further proceedings.
The legal precedent that Google is using relates to mass market products, so Google is under no obligation to change the terms for the mass market version.

Of course seem to have misplaced my crystal ball at the moment and can't make any predictions about Google's future actions.
Sil_liS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #22
Ninjalawyer
Guru
Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ninjalawyer's Avatar
 
Posts: 779
Karma: 17579274
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Touch, Nexus 7 (2013)
This seems like a complete non-story so far and only applies (at the moment) to the the Explorer Edition (i.e., the dev units) currently in the wild. If this is also a restriction on the final, publicly available hardware, then maybe feel free to take your pitchforks out of storage.
Ninjalawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #23
Ntsimp
Zealot
Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ntsimp ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 141
Karma: 1215642
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Utah
Device: iriver Story HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Read the copyright page, there's several terms of your license spelled out. Your're not allowed to sell copies of the content or make a movie out the story, for example.
This has nothing to do with any sort of "license". I didn't license my pbooks; I bought them. Those restrictions come from copyright law (as far as they are true, which is not always the case when a copyright holder tries to tell you what the law says). As the owner of a book, I have the right to do with its content anything not prohibited by copyright or other applicable law. The copyright holder has nothing to say about that; they could only choose to grant me further rights otherwise denied me by the law.
Ntsimp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:14 PM   #24
pl001
Evangelist
pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pl001 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 447
Karma: 4818038
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Nook, Nook Color, EVO3D, Surface RT, Galaxy S5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
Google does this in basis of a ruling from 2010, as was stated in the article quoted in the OP. Ruling:


The legal precedent that Google is using relates to mass market products, so Google is under no obligation to change the terms for the mass market version.

Of course seem to have misplaced my crystal ball at the moment and can't make any predictions about Google's future actions.
The ruling does indeed apply to mass market products. However Google is not applying it to a mass market product, and I don't see why anybody would expect them to. It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.
pl001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:18 PM   #25
Rylon
Hungry Polar Bear
Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rylon's Avatar
 
Posts: 33
Karma: 355562
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Device: Kindle Keyboard Wi-Fi + 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyGuy View Post
I find this very confusing, Google can't "forbid" you from selling them even if they wanted to. Something doesn't add up here.
Sure they can. It's called a contract. First year contracts: all contracts have an offer, acceptance of the offer, and consideration.

Offer: We'll sell you this widget for $1,500 on the condition that you don't re-sell them.

Acceptance: you buy the widget for $1,500.

Consideration: (Every party gets something, every party looses something) Widget maker gets $1,500,000 but looses the ability sell it someone else, you get the widget, but you're out $1,500.

If you then sell the widget, you're in breech of contract and the widget maker can sue for damages. Or, possibly, get a restraining order preventing you from re-selling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
The definition of owning something is changing.
Not really.

Restraints on alienation (fancy way of saying re-selling, I only use alienation incase someone wanted to google phrase for legal precedent), while depreciated, have never been per-se illegal. Or even very uncommon.

Consider tickets, many special event tickets say they are non-transferable. Maybe you've bought a large box with several individually wrapped items inside that say "not for re-sale"? Restraints on re-selling are quite common and have been for literally centuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewH View Post
I'll wait to overreact till Google Glass is out of beta. To me, this is nothing more than people whining about NDAs.
An NDA or the like was clearly part of the package. These people accepted Google's offer. Avarice is mighty thing.

Lastly, a restraint on re-selling or copying something doesn't magically turn something from ownership into a license. Almost no ownership is without restraints of some kind.
Rylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:30 PM   #26
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,692
Karma: 33379200
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by pl001 View Post
The ruling does indeed apply to mass market products. However Google is not applying it to a mass market product, and I don't see why anybody would expect them to. It's certainly possible, but highly unlikely.
And I don't see why anybody would expect them not to. They've had the legal right to do this with any product for the past 2.5 years.
Sil_liS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #27
ApK
What did you call me?
ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ApK ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,068
Karma: 33514047
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ, USA
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ntsimp View Post
This has nothing to do with any sort of "license"
You'll continue to be wrong no matter how many times you repeat it. That the licence comes from law (called an implied license, IIRC) doesn't change what it is. Your rights to use someone else's intellectual property is called license. Just look it up.

Last edited by ApK; 04-19-2013 at 07:33 PM.
ApK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 09:07 PM   #28
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,540
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sil_liS View Post
And I don't see why anybody would expect them not to. They've had the legal right to do this with any product for the past 2.5 years.
They won't do it unless they only plan to sell to a few geeks. Google is evil, but not stupid.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 06:34 AM   #29
Rylon
Hungry Polar Bear
Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rylon ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rylon's Avatar
 
Posts: 33
Karma: 355562
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Device: Kindle Keyboard Wi-Fi + 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
You'll continue to be wrong no matter how many times you repeat it. That the licence comes from law (called an implied license, IIRC) doesn't change what it is. Your rights to use someone else's intellectual property is called license. Just look it up.
You're using the word license wrong.

When you buy a physical book, you don't get a license for the content, you get a copy of it. IOW, you get a copy of the content that you "own". What you can do with that book is governed by the contract between you and the person who sold you the book.

What you can do with the content of the book depends on the contract between you and the copyright holder. Assuming there is one. There usually isn't though.

I mean, you're almost right. It just that usually, when you buy a book, there is no license involved. I say usually because contracts can change that. You can contract with someone to get more rights, or get fewer. With regards to copyright, you usually don't get anything when you buy a physical book. "All rights reserved", as they say.

So you're right that you don't get a copyright on the content of the book, but you're wrong when you characterize what you do get as a license. Especially since you typically don't get anything.

Don't feel to bad though, there's a lot of confusing legal terminology floating around about copyrights, contracts, and ownership. And often concepts are conflated.
Rylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 07:23 AM   #30
Jessica Lares
Wizard
Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jessica Lares ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jessica Lares's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,802
Karma: 5567166
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Near Dallas, Texas, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, iPad Mini, iPod Touch (5th gen)
Why is this such a big deal? You wasted the time to signup for the beta program, made the payment, and now you change your mind? This is more to do with the fact that they don't want people activating it, seeing that it barely does anything, and then passing it on to another person who will simply do the same thing. You don't want to commit to a project? Tough luck. You either send it back so the company themselves can pick another worthy individual, or deal with being stuck with it.

This is not a finalized product that is ready for consumer consumption. That is why they did the signups the way that they did and ended up giving it to mostly high profile people and people who are not like me and you and sit in front of ebooks all day. It's a product for people who like to "explore", and taking pictures of your everyday coffee, your cat, and your grocery shopping, is not what they're after.

I remember when Lytro was calling for beta testers, and the people who wanted a try had no clue, just NO CLUE at how selfish they sounded when their reasoning for wanting one was for taking pictures of their family and pets. Some guy was even after one for a research project he needed to have done by the end of the month.

And when those types of people get ahold of something in beta, it leads to problems. Because then they start to complain about how this and that were bad, and that no one should be bothering to get it. They treat it as if they actually invested their own money into it. And in the case of Google Glass, you HAVE to invest money to get the developer hardware, which makes it even more of a problem.

They are just trying to keep it under control while it's still in development. When it's available for you and I to pre-order once it's done for, there's going to be absolutely no problem with authorizing and de-authorizing our Google accounts.
Jessica Lares is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Google Glass as a mobile reading platform? Rhialto General Discussions 20 11-13-2013 07:23 PM
Google Vulnerability -- Concern for eDGe users? Filark enTourage Archive 5 05-18-2011 10:39 PM
Senta and the Steel Dragon book 2: The Dark and Forbidding Land HistoryWes Self-Promotions by Authors and Publishers 5 04-23-2011 05:46 PM
Ebook Reselling -Yea or Nay- Giggleton General Discussions 91 03-23-2011 07:20 PM
iPad Reselling apps - legal or not? mgmueller Apple Devices 11 08-01-2010 04:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:14 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.