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Old 04-14-2013, 06:49 AM   #1
cybmole
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Question special characters e & i with horizontal line above

i have this quote? in a Joe Haldeman short story collection, at the start of one story:

Dis Buk wil tel dē storē of dē Burning, and of whī
Each 80 yērs Men have to hīd from Wind and Sē and Skī
And how dē first Men first went Nōrd to flē dē Burning Sun,
And whī God rids dē Wrld of Līf when Līf has jus begun.
Godbuk 1, 1, 1-4

my sony reader does not like those overscored e and i characters ( they are OK in my browser & in sigil book view - is it possible to get them to display in epub without too much complication ?

there are not in the sigil special characters table.

and what language is this extract - some form of ye-olde-english ???
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:49 AM   #2
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The ADE default fonts don't cover the Latin-1 Supplement Unicode block.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
is it possible to get them to display in epub without too much complication ?
You can add the book to Calibre, do an epub to epub conversion and have Calibre embed Arial, Times Roman or another system font.

Since you're familiar with Sigil you could also manually embed a font. :-)
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
The ADE default fonts don't cover the Latin-1 Supplement Unicode block.



....
? i don't see those ē & ī characters on that latin supplement link either. i see various things over e- acuet, grace, unmlaut, & some i don't know the names of... but not a horizontal line ?
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
? i don't see those ē & ī characters on that latin supplement link either. i see various things over e- acuet, grace, unmlaut, & some i don't know the names of... but not a horizontal line ?
I mixed up the Unicode ranges: it's "Latin Extended-A".
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:18 AM   #5
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ok thanks - does the unicode range name of latin imply a connection with the language Latin or is that co-incidence ?

do these characters appear in any modern language i.e. am I ever likely to encounter them in a different book ? If not, I'll just substitute normal e & i .
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
ok thanks - does the unicode range name of latin imply a connection with the language Latin or is that co-incidence ?
There is a connection, but it doesn't mean those characters are used to typeset Latin (although they may be). The name Latin here is because this alphabet we are using is called the Latin one, because it was originally used for Latin (as opposed to Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, etc, which use different writing systems). English, German, French, Italian, Swedish, Welsh, Turkish, Swahili, Basque, Hungarian... all use the Latin characters, some of them with some modifications.

Quote:
do these characters appear in any modern language i.e. am I ever likely to encounter them in a different book ? If not, I'll just substitute normal e & i .
You are unlikely to find them, unless you like reading scholarly texts about old or foreign languages, in which case you'd probably already know that. If you want more information, that horizontal line is called a macron.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
do these characters appear in any modern language i.e. am I ever likely to encounter them in a different book ? If not, I'll just substitute normal e & i .
Since these characters usually indicate the length of a vowel, you lose bits of information, if you replace them with unaccented characters.

IMHO, it'd be better, if you replaced them with vowels with a circumflex:

ā = , ē = , ī = , ō = , ū =

(Several Latin textbooks use this transliteration method, and ADE supports them because they're used in French.)
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #8
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good idea - thanks
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:37 AM   #9
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update- it seems that when I insert special character as discussed above sigil adds all the crap below. I think I highlighted the charcter to be replaced & clicked on the appropriate one in the special character table. It displays OK but look at the generated code - surely overkill!

this was with 7.1.

alternatively it is possible i did search find replace all with the appropriate characters in the regex fields.

<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->

all that code for each instance of !

PS i tried just now to reproduce it with v7.2 working in book view but I did not get any of this start fragment stuff

Last edited by cybmole; 04-16-2013 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:42 AM   #10
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That crap originates from Microsoft office. It is from their version of html/xml. It is hard to imagine that sigil will add that.
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxaris View Post
That crap originates from Microsoft office. It is from their version of html/xml. It is hard to imagine that sigil will add that.
that is NOT the case. I have the epub backed up from before I tried to alter those characters; there is no sign of that added code in the backup. I did all edits in Sigil 7.1 (possibly via book view) so sigil must have added the code QED

before:

book view

Dis Buk wil tel dē storē of dē Burning, and of whī
Each 80 yērs Men have to hīd from Wind and Sē and Skī
And how dē first Men first went Nōrd to flē dē Burning Sun,
And whī God rids dē Wrld of Līf when Līf has jus begun.
—Godbuk 1, 1, 1-4

code view
<p class="left"><i class="calibre1">Dis Buk wil tel dē storē of dē Burning, and of whī<br class="calibre2" />
Each 80 yērs Men have to hīd from Wind and Sē and Skī<br class="calibre2" />
And how dē first Men first went Nōrd to flē dē Burning Sun,<br class="calibre2" />
And whī God rids dē Wrld of Līf when Līf has jus begun.</i></p>

after ( I manually removed the first couple of instances of the crap here, to check that it could be gotten rid off , but you can see the many instances where I have not yet removed it
book view

Dis Buk wil tel d store of d Burning, and of wh
Each 80 yrs Men have to hd from Wind and S and Sk
And how d first Men first went Nrd to fl d Burning Sun,
And wh God rids d Wrld of Lf when Lf has jus begun.
—Godbuk 1, 1, 1-4

code view
<blockquote class="calibre10">
<p class="left"><i class="calibre1">Dis Buk wil tel d&nbsp;store of d&nbsp;Burning, and of wh<br class="calibre2" />
Each 80 y<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->rs Men have to hd from Wind and S<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->&nbsp;and Sk<br class="calibre2" />
And how d<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->&nbsp;first Men first went Nrd to fl d<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->&nbsp;Burning Sun,<br class="calibre2" />
And wh God rids d<!--StartFragment--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language: EN-US;mso-bidi-language:AR-SA"></span><!--EndFragment-->&nbsp;Wrld of Lf when Lf has jus begun.</i></p>

<p class="right">—Godbuk 1, 1, 1-4</p>
</blockquote>

Last edited by cybmole; 04-16-2013 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:06 AM   #12
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PS I suppose the only other possibility - long shot - is that I grabbed the desired characters from this browser window ( chrome) after they had been suggested earlier in the thread & pasted each character into the replace box of sigil find/replace regex - could that cause it..
I really don't think that I did that though
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Old 04-16-2013, 06:46 AM   #13
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Strange, since AFAK the mso-stuff stands for Microsoft Office... Perhaps because it uses Visual Tools libraries???
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:43 AM   #14
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i definitely did not expose any version of this epub to MS office!
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:43 AM   #15
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What about embedding a FOSS font that includes those ranges, and not using the ADE default?
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