Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-12-2013, 09:27 PM   #16
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,685
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
To future proof my eBooks, I use ePub and any DRM gets stripped. It's the only existing format that has a chance of being able to be converted to something else (IMHO). I don't know if ePub as we now know it, will survive. I hope whatever ePub we end up with will be backwards compatible.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 05:24 AM   #17
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,224
Karma: 10210627
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony PRS505, Nook Color(CM7), iPad3
Quote:
Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
Project Gutenberg started in the 70's and the files there are still accessible today. It's 42 yrs old and still kicking.
The plain text versions are.
Some of the others might not be.
I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 05:55 AM   #18
b0rsuk
meles meles
b0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austenb0rsuk has memorized the entire works of Homer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austen
 
b0rsuk's Avatar
 
Posts: 84
Karma: 23524
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Persepolis
Device: Still waiting for an A5 one.
Another thing to think about: most physical media are magnetic in nature, which means an EMP pulse (sun flare or military) can fry it permanently. CDs are optical, but they have severe longevity issues, at least those from common CD burners. They oxidize and can become unreadable within 5 years.

When it doubt, carve your data in stone. As new ways to store information are developed, they are invariably:
- faster to write
- faster to read
- less durable
b0rsuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 06:19 AM   #19
Apache
Readaholic
Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Apache ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Apache's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,301
Karma: 31788794
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Georgia
Device: Nook Color / Nook HD+
But wind and water can erode stone.
Apache
Apache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:52 AM   #20
pidgeon92
Wizard
pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pidgeon92's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,679
Karma: 6215266
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Device: Kindle 2, Kindle PW2, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?
None of them will be readable by me.
pidgeon92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 02:19 PM   #21
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,493
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeera View Post
Yep, me too (having come to the rescue of friends in this situation in the past, with my olde Mac). And those people could have prevented that, just by transferring their data over when tech first started to move on from floppies, instead of waiting ten years and then going "Oopsie!". I've seen a bunch of people lose data from not backing up their hard drive, too - again, this is very easily prevented. The solution is a modicum of education, forward planning and not falling into the trap of "it'll never happen to me" syndrome.
You know this, and I know it too.

Most other people don't know, don't want to know, or are indeed of the "It won't happen to me" or the "There will be a solution someday" sort.

There are a few people that I support through Remote Assistance to keep them reading. They wanted an ereader because of the convenience with regard to weight, size, and so fortth. However, without me, they can't even get a purchased book onto the thing.

They just don't understand the process. They just DON'T. No amount of education will solve this. These are the type of people that go "Hey, where is that file I just downloaded?" when the browser has finished and closed the download window. They are too computer-illiterate to manage.

Who do you think has to keep track of all of these people's books? Yes, me. And the only reason I do it is because they are friends or family.

If I don't download and unDRM their books, make their backups, import them into their Calibre, *and* put the books onto the reader, everything through Remote Assistance, then they won't be reading on an ereader. Even after watching me do it many times, they just can't do it themselves. Each time I ask and just watch, they hit snag somewhere along the line, be it not being able to log into the store, find the ASCM-file, find the EPUB after downloading, or using Calibre.

If I decide to go away to Timbuktu and live as a hermit, there are a significant amount of people who will not just cease reading on an ereader, but will instantly loose access to ALL of their information if only the slightest thing happens, such as a defective hard drive, let alone if they'd need a program upgrade or God assist me, a file format conversion of a DRM-ed file that was bought from the store using the e-reader itself.

I can future proof my data to some extend, because I know (some) stuff, and because some individuals and/or companies provide solutions I am aware of. However, most people are too uneducated with regard to computers, too uninterested, or sometimes even too stupid to handle something like this. That's my main reason for looking into future proofing ebooks in such a way that even the most uneducated, disinterested and stupid people will be able to read for a long time to come.

At the same time, I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore myself.

Last edited by Katsunami; 04-13-2013 at 02:27 PM.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #22
pidgeon92
Wizard
pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pidgeon92 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pidgeon92's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,679
Karma: 6215266
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Device: Kindle 2, Kindle PW2, Kindle DXG, Boox M90, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
If I decide to go away to Timbuktu and live as a hermit, there are a significant amount of people who will not just cease reading on an ereader, but will instantly loose access to ALL of their information if only the slightest thing happens, such as a defective hard drive, let alone if they'd need a program upgrade or God assist me, a file format conversion of a DRM-ed file that was bought from the store using the e-reader itself.
And they'll survive just the same as they did prior to having the technology [and someone to take care of it for them].
pidgeon92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 05:06 PM   #23
Katsunami
Wizard
Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Katsunami ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Katsunami's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,493
Karma: 15287269
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Yes, they'll probably go back to reading paper books, and have their computer maintained and backed up by some company for way too much money.
Katsunami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 05:47 PM   #24
Ripplinger
350 Hoarder
Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ripplinger's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,281
Karma: 2299170
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Device: Sony PRS-350: 3 Silver, 2 Blue!; Kobo Glo
Those people then either need to have computer-literate friends willing to help them, hire someone to do it for them, or as a last resort, go back to paperbacks. This is like comparing people who drive (and love to drive) to people who don't know how. They get someone to drive them around, there is no way to make it any easier on them to transfer their media.
Ripplinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 07:18 PM   #25
rkomar
Wizard
rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,693
Karma: 4329778
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripplinger View Post
Those people then either need to have computer-literate friends willing to help them, hire someone to do it for them, or as a last resort, go back to paperbacks. This is like comparing people who drive (and love to drive) to people who don't know how. They get someone to drive them around, there is no way to make it any easier on them to transfer their media.
Except that DRM is not a necessity. It is a choice by the suppliers of ebooks. We know that it doesn't stop piracy. We know that those in the know can thwart it. We also know that those not in the know will get screwed by it (and those of us on unsupported computer platforms don't even get to try). All the problems boil down to DRM. So I think it's wrong to blame the computer-illiterate for this problem they have. If the files were open, it would all be so much simpler for the reader, like downloading and listening to un-DRMed music files.

Unfortunately, the longevity problem for Katsunami is a "solution" for the suppliers, since it cuts down on competition from previously bought content, and boosts fresh sales.
rkomar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:05 PM   #26
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,227
Karma: 5330426
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
No, it's not a different issue.
Yes. It is.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #27
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,227
Karma: 5330426
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
To future proof my eBooks, I use ePub and any DRM gets stripped. It's the only existing format that has a chance of being able to be converted to something else (IMHO). I don't know if ePub as we now know it, will survive. I hope whatever ePub we end up with will be backwards compatible.
Calibre doesn't seem to have any trouble keeping up with changing Kindle formats, to or from.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:08 PM   #28
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,227
Karma: 5330426
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
The plain text versions are.
EPUB is text, inside the zip file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
Some of the others might not be.
I've got pBooks that are 150+ years old.
How many current file formats do you think will still be readable 150 years from now?
Any that are transferred to new hard drive/flash drives/whatever comes next as people replace their computers.

I mean, seriously, how hard is to Goolge for a Kindle Reader? It's hard to make stuff go away when you want it to on the internet.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:17 PM   #29
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,227
Karma: 5330426
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
Another thing to think about: most physical media are magnetic in nature, which means an EMP pulse (sun flare or military) can fry it permanently.
Um, not really. Don't believe everything you see on the SyFy channel's movies of the week.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 08:20 PM   #30
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,227
Karma: 5330426
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katsunami View Post
They just don't understand the process. They just DON'T. No amount of education will solve this. These are the type of people that go "Hey, where is that file I just downloaded?" when the browser has finished and closed the download window. They are too computer-illiterate to manage.
These are the same sort of people who will put their paper books in the basement, where in five years they'll be more mold than paper.

The question isn't whether or not there are 150 year old books still around. Of course there are. The question is, what percentage of 150 year old books are still around, vs. what percentage of electronic data will still be around in 150years. The former will be a rather smaller number than the latter. It's a lot easier to preserve electronic data than paper books.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DRM and future proofing in the UK spinningdoc Which one should I buy? 11 05-03-2011 06:34 PM
The future: ebooks inside ebooks? wyndslash General Discussions 7 02-24-2011 06:19 PM
Future-proofing my username... bornagainpenguin Introduce Yourself 6 01-18-2010 02:26 AM
Future proofing and LRF... Student1 Calibre 5 03-26-2009 08:11 AM
Collaborating on Proofing of Scanned Books lizardcry Lounge 8 10-07-2008 04:49 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.