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Old 04-12-2013, 08:03 PM   #76
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Out of curiosity, why do you need a dedicated graphics card? There are genuine uses for having one, but today's embedded graphics card are "good enough" for what most people do, including playing 1080p videos and casual gaming. Even my N10 can happily play 1080p.
My kids are running five year old computers. By upgrading video, I am able to extend the life of the computer since all the heavy lifting is handled by the video card.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:05 PM   #77
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Not only do all new laptops come with Win8 installed,but my very compter literate husband couldn't figure out how to uninstall it to install Win7 on the laptop. It's locked down some how, so you can't move backward.
Try a place that serves small businesses or a dedicated computer shop. They tend to serve people who have specific needs.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #78
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That's precisely what I dislike about it.
They have essentially sandwiched two unconnected UIs into one OS.
Apps written for the 'Windows 7' interface look and feel completely different to apps written for the 'Windows 8' interface. That is a useability nightmare.
No. What they have done is separate content consumption from content creation. That's the whole 'best of both worlds' approach. When you boot the machine, you are in the metro world -- live tiles, scrolling screens, and full screen apps unencumbered by scroll bars and such. It's pretty cool when you are watching a movie or surfing the web or playing a game. When you need to get down to business, you click the desktop tile and you are in a multitasking, cut and paste, content creation environment.

The metro interface is what amazon and apple have been running on their devices with success. Microsoft is just conceding the appeal of that UI. At the same time, they are offering the more productive among us the venerable windows desktop.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:14 PM   #79
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To me, it fails to answer a simple question: If I'm not interested in the Metro interface, why would I want to upgrade? Windows 7 works fine.
If I were to by a new PC now, I would buy it with Windows 7 rather than 8. I know it works, I know it has drivers for everything I need, and why take the risk with a new OS?
This is really not the question. 1) No one is telling you to upgrade. 2) Best Buy, Dell, and others still sell Windows 7 systems. 3) Many vendors offer free downgrade to Windows 7 pro from Windows 8 pro.

The question is how long will vendors make drivers for obsolete operating systems. The answer is not very. I strongly recommend running the OS that comes with a computer. Vendors spend a lot of time and money making sure these things work well. You CAN upgrade or downgrade, but, in the end, you are running an unsupported configuration. That is an exciting challenge for me, but maybe not for you.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:18 PM   #80
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I'd also make a distinction between my main "workhorse" computer, which I'll probably want to connect lots of peripherals to, and a laptop used for other purposes. For my "main" computer I'd certainly want an o/s with good driver support, and I'd probably hesitate about buying Win8 at the present time for that reason; I have a number of older devices (eg a very good printer which I really don't want to have to replace) which I don't know whether or not have Win8 drivers available. For stability reasons, Win8 is fussier about installing older drivers than Win7 is.
and for security reasons. my solution to the printer problem is to run a vpc of the compatible software then share the printer. computers are so amazing now, that running an xp server as an xpc is totally trivial.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:23 PM   #81
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One of these days, Marketing departments will understand the correct way to introduce anything that is very much different from what was considered the norm for a very long time. Most people are loathe to change even a little. This change was much too much to be introduced at one time. This is not going to happen overnight. It took years for consumers to give up on DOS and migrate to Windows. This is as big a leap in some ways as well. What they needed to do is show people why they need to switch over to the new operating system. In other words, what is in it for me, the consumer. This OS might be the best ever developed, but only a fraction of the people will give it a try because it was marketed so poorly. Most of us on this forum are early adopters of electronic and computer products, yet a high percentage do not care for the new OS... and that is putting it mildly.

What is the answer? I don't know... that's what they pay the big boys to figure out. Good luck with that!
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:31 PM   #82
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I'm sure they would have liked things to be different. I would have had some suggestions if asked. Microsoft is trying to integrate phones, consoles, computers, and tablets. You're going to break some eggs. I think they developed the surface to push vendors towards their vision. In a vacuum, a lot of people would have liked xp to stick around for another decade.

So, the question is how do you get people to buy the touch screens required to work the touch gui needed to allow apps to be easily and concurrently developed for phones, consoles, computers, and tablets. That is microsoft's play. they don't want to sell phones, consoles, computers, and tablets. They want to sell a microsoft solution which runs on phones, consoles, computers, and tablets.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:39 PM   #83
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Windows 8 doesn't let you have multiple windows open? that's a non-starter for me. I currently have 4 windows open on 2 monitors: Windows Eplorer, a Word document, a Notepad ++ document, and my Firefox browser. I sometimes have more, sometimes less, but rarely only one.
None of those applications are in tile world/Metro, so the limit on the number of new open windows (which is 2, not 1) does not apply.

Here's my modest proposal for anyone from Microsoft reading this:

I know you want the default to be the new interface so the public doesn't totally ignore your store, as I do. But stop making it just hard enough to switch back so that the difficulty* becomes a reason to ask for Windows 7 when buying a new PC. Instead, make changing the default behaviors simple control panel checkboxes.



_________________________
* Examples of the what it now takes to restore older behaviors:

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/win...e-desktop/6976

http://blog.laptopmag.com/how-to-add...dows-8-taskbar
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #84
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Most vendors offer a Win8 PRO to win7 pro downgrade for free. The intent is to let the businesses migrate to win8 eventually. Win8 pro is more expensive, but most businesses need the enterprise stuff anyway.
That may be where they're moving with new models. Eventually. A quick check on our Premier account shows one out of five Optiplx models has Win8 as a standard option. Three out of the four that are Win7 only are new models. None of the Vostros, Dimensions or XPS models list Win8 as a standard option. That's on desktops. I see exactly one laptop that has Win8 available. The only category that consistently has Win8/RT available is the tablets.

In point of fact, Vista is available on a lot more models than Win8, and Ubuntu and Red Hat on even more. Hell, FreeDOS is available on more models than Win8.

Now, that's through a Premier account, and those are standard options. I'm sure we could get anything we wanted configured with Win8 with a simple phone call to our account team. But what shows up on the Premier web site is the pre-configured stuff that their customers want. In other words, Microsoft can whine all they want, but businesses (at least through Dell) simply aren't buying Win8 at this point, and show no sign of doing so any time soon.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #85
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Try a place that serves small businesses or a dedicated computer shop. They tend to serve people who have specific needs.
If you go to Dell's consumer web site, both the home and business sections allow you to search by operating system in the left hand menu. I'm sure HP has the same options somewhere.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:49 PM   #86
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The metro interface is what amazon and apple have been running on their devices with success.
Amazon doesn't make desktops. Apple doesn't make computers for business use (despite them being used for business to a certain degree, it's not the market Apple aims for). Does Apple really cripple their desktops that much?
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:52 PM   #87
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The question is how long will vendors make drivers for obsolete operating systems. The answer is not very.
I just installed an big workgroup printer, brand new, on an XP machine today. Drivers were not a problem. XP is over a decade old now, and only has 12 more months before Microsoft stops doing security patches for it (and that's really the point where you need to stop using it). But apparently, it's not obsolete yet.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:54 PM   #88
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I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.
I don't think you are interested in having a conversation. We disagree. I'm moving on. Good luck finding smarter people who agree with you.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:58 PM   #89
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I don't think you are interested in having a conversation. We disagree. I'm moving on. Good luck finding smarter people who agree with you.
I don't really care if people agree with me or not if they can explain why they don't, and know what they're takling about. I've beeing doing IT for for nearly 20 years, and been pretty skilled with computers even longer. Your claim that drivers won't be written for Win7 is contrary to 100% of my experience.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:08 PM   #90
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Twenty years is not very long. You have a lot to learn. If you had been paying attention when WinXP arrived and again when Vista debuted, you will recall that scanners and printers were orphaned. If you try to install Windows 7 or Vista on a Lenovo laptop made for Win8, you will not find drivers. You can find drivers that work, but that's not the same.

I can make just about any OS run on just about any hardware. You probably can too. Most people cannot. For most people, the best approach is to use a computer with the OS that came with it, buy peripherals that are compatible, and run software that promises to be compatible with the installed OS.

That was true twenty years ago.
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