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Old 04-08-2013, 09:25 AM   #16
chaley
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Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
@chaley: Thanks to the dynamic nature of python, maintaining compatibility is easy. We just create a dummy object that exposes the same API (a minimal subset) as the current combobox object and get the actual restriction from the new code.
Yea, had figured that out. For the moment I am maintaining the actual QComboBox, simply not displaying it anywhere. Later, if we want, we can reduce it to something smaller.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
That will make the feature more discoverable, as opposed to putting it inside the library menu.
Not only will it be easier to discover it should be easier describe the advantages of using Virtual libraries over using multiple separate individual libraries.

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In such a case Doctor-Ohh is right and the VL feature should become the "base". i.e. it should be used in Preferences->Behavior and in the content server.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
Name the feature Virtual Libraries

The UI
Replace the Restrict to dropdown with a new button that says "Virtual Libraries"
This button when clicked will popup a menu with the entries:
...~~~...
There are probably some wrinkles to work out with this proposal.
I love the proposal, wrinkles and all.

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Originally Posted by kovidgoyal View Post
A VL is defined as (friendly name, search). The friendly name will be used in the UI (titlebar/menus/etc.)
Using the VI friendly name in the UI is excellent.

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And one of the motivations for this change is to make this feature both easier to discover and describe. Virtual library meets both those goals.
Indeed it does.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:59 AM   #18
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Not only will it be easier to discover it should be easier describe the advantages of using Virtual libraries over using multiple separate individual libraries.
Weird, I was just thinking earlier today that I wished Calibre had some kind of quick and easy to use virtual library function so I wouldn't need to use multiple separate libraries.

It sounds very useful.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:59 PM   #19
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Weird, I was just thinking earlier today that I wished Calibre had some kind of quick and easy to use virtual library function so I wouldn't need to use multiple separate libraries.

It sounds very useful.
The basic feature already exists.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:38 PM   #20
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The basic feature already exists.
Well yeah, but it was the ability to quickly and easily apply searches to them that I was wanting which, I believe, was the original request
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:24 PM   #21
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@BR: Filtering is used to denote filtering the current book list alone, not the entire library, which a restriction does. Restrictions are not filters. And one of the motivations for this change is to make this feature both easier to discover and describe. Virtual library meets both those goals.
Virtual means 'simulated' as in Virtual Memory where backing storage is used to simulate that a computer has more memory than is physically installed, or as in Virtual Reality which is a computer simulation of places, events and people in the real world.

Virtual does not mean Select, Filter, Restrict, Constrain... Virtual means

The term Virtual Library is most often used to mean the exact opposite of Select, Restrict etc... They are facilities that present a single view of multiple institutions, such as http://vlib.org/, there are similar VL's that span Law School Libraries, I think there's one that spans US Presidential Libraries.

IMO if a Button is clicked to perform an action its 'label' ought to reflect the action, that is it should have a verb in it. Virtual is an adjective, and Library is noun

Given how the term Virtual Library is already used, one could not be blamed for thinking that a button labelled (described) with the term Virtual Library in Calibre would present a single view of all one's libraries.

I rest my case, your honour

BR
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #22
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Given how the term Virtual Library is already used, one could not be blamed for thinking that a button labelled (described) with the term Virtual Library in Calibre would present a single view of all one's libraries
Or it could instead mean a library that simply doesn't match the underlying on-disk arrangement.

Especially if it could apply the search to multiple on-disk libraries, though I doubt that'll happen soon
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:08 AM   #23
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Virtual means 'simulated' as in Virtual Memory where backing storage is used to simulate that a computer has more memory than is physically installed, or as in Virtual Reality which is a computer simulation of places, events and people in the real world.
Indeed, and Virtual Library in calibre means a simulated library that simulates the current library having less content than the actual library does.

Just because Virtual can be used to imply that something is larger than the original does not mean it cannot also be used to imply that something is smaller than the original. The adjective virtual has no connotations of relative size.

As for what Virtual "most commonly means", that is entirely subjective and depends on the individuals exposure to the term. I certainly dont think of virtual as implying a superset rather than a subset. For example, a Virtual machine is a computer that uses only part fo the resources of the physical computer. A virtual reality is a simulation of reality that is less complex than actual reality. Indeed, the entire gamut of phenomena when the word virtual is used to refer to a simulation of some physical system almost always has the simulation being simpler than the reality.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:49 AM   #24
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I submitted the changes, built as suggested by Kovid.

The following will give an idea of what it now looks like.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Clipboard01.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	24.8 KB
ID:	104091
It is likely to change during the review process.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:20 AM   #25
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I submitted the changes, built as suggested by Kovid.
...~~~...
It is likely to change during the review process.
Very nice start.

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Weird, I was just thinking earlier today that I wished Calibre had some kind of quick and easy to use virtual library function so I wouldn't need to use multiple separate libraries.
The basic feature already exists.
Well yeah, but it was the ability to quickly and easily apply searches to them that I was wanting which, I believe, was the original request
It is already very quick and easy to do exactly that. Currently any Saved search is automatically available as a "virtual library" in the Restrict to dropdown menu.

The "original request" in this thread was to increase the complication of the feature that currently exists. That new complication feature is indeed being added. But in the process of adding this new feature they decided to give it a make over too. I think the new name and look of the interface will allow folks to easily intuit a feature that has existed for years.

Making it easier to discover, describe and use this feature is a giant plus in my book.

Last edited by DoctorOhh; 04-09-2013 at 10:12 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:09 AM   #26
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Personally, I think the proposed is a great idea. My only real critique is if you are going with Virtual Library should the option to restrict it be called Additional Restriction? I mean technically it is, as the creation of the VL is in itself a restriction, but it seems lacking since from my viewpoint it is the first restriction placed on the VL. My two cents take it for what its worth
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:38 AM   #27
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It is already very quick and easy to do exactly that. Currently any Saved search is automatically available as a "virtual library" in the Restrict to dropdown menu.
I think we're talking past each other here. I was talking about easily applying a new saved search to a restriction, not applying the initial saved search. Which I believe is just as the original poster was asking for.

Last edited by Kirtai; 04-09-2013 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:55 PM   #28
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I think we're talking past each other here. I was talking about easily applying a new saved search to a restriction, not applying the initial saved search. Which I believe is just as the original poster was asking for.
You are absolutely correct, my misunderstanding.

I was just going based on your initial statement where you "wished Calibre had some kind of quick and easy to use virtual library function so I wouldn't need to use multiple separate libraries." Which currently calibre does have a quick and easy to use virtual library function so folks don't need to use multiple separate libraries and has had this feature for years.

Last edited by DoctorOhh; 04-09-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:10 PM   #29
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Yeah, I guess I should have been clearer

I was thinking of virtual libraries as having all the features of real libraries (such as the ability to take a search), but not matching the on-disk setup. I don't view a saved search as virtual libraries but rather as merely a search result (or maybe the equivalent of a dynamic playlist in a media player or a smartlist from ComicRack)

Just different definitions really.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:51 PM   #30
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I was thinking of virtual libraries as having all the features of real libraries (such as the ability to take a search), but not matching the on-disk setup.
What you were thinking above is exactly what currently exists. The "restrict to" dropdown list is essentially a list of virtual libraries. I explain it in the links in my previous post. The new things are the name will change from "Restrict to" to Virtual libraries and the interface to create them will be easier to understand. Additionally a new second level restriction will be allowed on the virtual library. Basically allowing the creation of a second sub virtual library within a virtual library.

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I don't view a saved search as virtual libraries but rather as merely a search result
I agree, saved searches are not what we have been discussing. Saved searches are on the right side of calibre and the Virtual libraries, currently called "Restrict to" is on the left side of calibre. Two totally different beasts. The bottom line is that Virtual Libraries (using your definition quoted at the top of this post) have existed in calibre for years. The proposed change isn't changing the function of the current "Restrict to" feature, essentially only the name is being changed to Virtual libraries and it is getting a makeover.

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Just different definitions really.
Not really. This is why I'm glad the name and interface is being changed so everyone will easily intuit what the feature that has been there for years actually does.

Last edited by DoctorOhh; 04-10-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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