Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Kindle Formats

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-24-2013, 09:00 PM   #1
srascal
Epubs for Cylons
srascal began at the beginning.
 
srascal's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: Kindle Fire
Epub to Mobi Conversion Without Kindlegen or Calibre?

I have a client who wants to sell his book (in epub and mobi) directly from his high-traffic website. He does not want to sell the book on Amazon at all.

Does anyone know of a reliable way to convert from epub to mobi without using Kindlegen (which explicitly states that the generated mobi file must be sold on Amazon)?

I tried converting using Calibre, but a large part of the CSS, namely font-faces and margin-left, were stripped out. I tried adjusting the settings on Mobi Output to say "both" or "new" for the mobi output type, but the resulting file did still not have the CSS properties when I tested the files onto my Kindle Fire.

If you know of a way to zip mobi files with KF8 formatting and media queries by using the command line or any kind of software, please let me know. Thanks
srascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 12:06 AM   #2
neufsix
Connoisseur
neufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheeseneufsix can extract oil from cheese
 
Posts: 57
Karma: 1010
Join Date: Jul 2011
Device: Archos A70 eReader, Kindle Touch, Sony PRS-T2
I think that kindlegen is the best tool for the conversion. Are you sure that any mobi made using kindlegen must be sold on Amazon ?
neufsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 04:11 AM   #3
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,149
Karma: 4792399
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Maybe you could use kindlegen and then convert mobi-to-mobi with calibre (or mobi2mobi), then delete the file created by kindlegen

It's also possible that you can tweak what calibre does with the CSS, but ask in the calibre forum to be sure.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 01:51 PM   #4
tomsem
Wizard
tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tomsem ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,421
Karma: 2519673
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Device: iPod Touch, Xoom, Kindle PW, iPad3, Fire HD2
I would plan to tweak the epub source to at least add any media queries that might be needed for a good conversion to mobi (less important than ever, but there are still K1/K2/DX Kindles and the iOS app to think of). Even with kf8 you may find some things you need to tweak, such as drop caps.

Also KDP guidelines will introduce some requirements that ePub does not have, such as recommended nav elements and so forth.

Last edited by tomsem; 03-25-2013 at 02:01 PM.
tomsem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 04:14 PM   #5
dgatwood
Curmudgeon
dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 277
Karma: 556004
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by srascal View Post
Does anyone know of a reliable way to convert from epub to mobi without using Kindlegen (which explicitly states that the generated mobi file must be sold on Amazon)?
As far as I can tell, the kindlegen EULA says nothing about that. Where are you getting that information?
dgatwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #6
srascal
Epubs for Cylons
srascal began at the beginning.
 
srascal's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: Kindle Fire
KindleGen is absolutely the best converter for mobi - no question about it. However, their Terms of Use is explicit that you must sell KindleGen mobi files on the Kindle store: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000599251 I really don't want to tango with Amazon's legal department or have my access to KindleGen revoked.

Jellby, that is a damn clever idea about converting from mobi to mobi in Calibre, and I tried it! The meta info did change. This is the meta info from an unzipped Kindlegen mobi:

<!-- The following meta tags are just for information and will be ignored by mobigen/kindlegen. -->
<meta name="Cover ThumbNail Image" content="images/image00136.jpeg" />
<meta name="Fake Cover" content="0" />
<meta name="Creator Software" content="202" />
<meta name="Creator Major Version" content="2" />
<meta name="Creator Minor Version" content="8" />
<meta name="Creator Build Number" content="0" />
<meta name="Font Signature (hex)" content="03000000000000000000000000000080002000000 00000000000000000000000edecbef401a901ae40934094409 94098409c409d40a240a6" />
<meta name="K8(129)_Masthead/Cover_Image" content="kindle:embed:0047" />
<meta name="534 (hex)" content="6b7072" />
<meta name="535 (hex)" content="303230382d37393762663735" />
<meta name="524 (hex)" content="656e2d5553" />
<meta name="StartOffset" content="173" />
<meta name="528 (hex)" content="74727565" />
<meta name="K8(121)_Boundary_Section" content="216" />
<meta name="525 (hex)" content="686f72697a6f6e74616c2d6c72" />
<meta name="K8(125)_Count_of_Resources_Fonts_Images" content="136" />
<meta name="K8(131)_Unidentified_Count" content="134" />

And this is the meta info from the mobi generated from Calibre from that same KindleGen mobi:

<!-- The following meta tags are just for information and will be ignored by mobigen/kindlegen. -->
<meta name="Cover ThumbNail Image" content="images/image00087.jpeg" />
<meta name="ASIN" content="7bb9623f-8088-4601-be8d-fa85cd754cfe" />
<meta name="Fake Cover" content="0" />
<meta name="Creator Software" content="201" />
<meta name="Creator Major Version" content="1" />
<meta name="Creator Minor Version" content="2" />
<meta name="Creator Build Number" content="33307" />
<meta name="CDE Type" content="EBOK" />
<meta name="Updated Title" content="Baseball" />
<meta name="K8(129)_Masthead/Cover_Image" content="kindle:embed:002M" />
<meta name="StartOffset" content="214" />
<meta name="524 (hex)" content="656e" />
<meta name="K8(131)_Unidentified_Count" content="0" />

So, it would appear that Calibre does change the meta info. I am not versed in meta matters enough to understand all of these properties, but they do seem altered enough.
srascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:16 PM   #7
srascal
Epubs for Cylons
srascal began at the beginning.
 
srascal's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: Kindle Fire
dgatwood, yes, if you go to the KindleGen download page and click on their Terms of Use, you'll see the following:

Amazon developed and makes this Software available for the purpose of allowing publishers and authors to create Kindle Format Content for distribution through the Kindle store. You may also use the Software for noncommercial purposes (e.g. to format works to be distributed at no charge). Subject to your compliance with all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Amazon grants to you a revocable, non-exclusive, non-assignable, non-sublicensable and non-transferable license to download, install and use the Software on a server or personal computer solely for these purposes. Any commercial use of this Software outside of the authorized purposes requires a separate agreement with Amazon.
srascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #8
srascal
Epubs for Cylons
srascal began at the beginning.
 
srascal's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: Kindle Fire
Jellby, that is a damn clever idea for converting from mobi to mobi with Calibre, and I tried it! The meta info was changed. This is the KindleGen-inserted meta info from the KindleGen mobi:

<!-- The following meta tags are just for information and will be ignored by mobigen/kindlegen. -->
<meta name="Cover ThumbNail Image" content="images/image00136.jpeg" />
<meta name="Fake Cover" content="0" />
<meta name="Creator Software" content="202" />
<meta name="Creator Major Version" content="2" />
<meta name="Creator Minor Version" content="8" />
<meta name="Creator Build Number" content="0" />
<meta name="Font Signature (hex)" content="03000000000000000000000000000080002000000 00000000000000000000000edecbef401a901ae40934094409 94098409c409d40a240a6" />
<meta name="K8(129)_Masthead/Cover_Image" content="kindle:embed:0047" />
<meta name="534 (hex)" content="6b7072" />
<meta name="535 (hex)" content="303230382d37393762663735" />
<meta name="524 (hex)" content="656e2d5553" />
<meta name="StartOffset" content="173" />
<meta name="528 (hex)" content="74727565" />
<meta name="K8(121)_Boundary_Section" content="216" />
<meta name="525 (hex)" content="686f72697a6f6e74616c2d6c72" />
<meta name="K8(125)_Count_of_Resources_Fonts_Images" content="136" />
<meta name="K8(131)_Unidentified_Count" content="134" />
srascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
srascal
Epubs for Cylons
srascal began at the beginning.
 
srascal's Avatar
 
Posts: 13
Karma: 10
Join Date: Mar 2013
Device: Kindle Fire
And this is the meta info from the Calibre mobi converted from the KindleGen mobi:

<!-- The following meta tags are just for information and will be ignored by mobigen/kindlegen. -->
<meta name="Cover ThumbNail Image" content="images/image00087.jpeg" />
<meta name="ASIN" content="7bb9623f-8088-4601-be8d-fa85cd754cfe" />
<meta name="Fake Cover" content="0" />
<meta name="Creator Software" content="201" />
<meta name="Creator Major Version" content="1" />
<meta name="Creator Minor Version" content="2" />
<meta name="Creator Build Number" content="33307" />
<meta name="CDE Type" content="EBOK" />
<meta name="Updated Title" content="Baseball" />
<meta name="K8(129)_Masthead/Cover_Image" content="kindle:embed:002M" />
<meta name="StartOffset" content="214" />
<meta name="524 (hex)" content="656e" />
<meta name="K8(131)_Unidentified_Count" content="0" />

So, it would seem that the meta was changed enough. If anyone is versed in meta properties, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
srascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 09:40 PM   #10
dgatwood
Curmudgeon
dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 277
Karma: 556004
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by srascal View Post
dgatwood, yes, if you go to the KindleGen download page and click on their Terms of Use, you'll see the following:

Amazon developed and makes this Software available for the purpose of allowing publishers and authors to create Kindle Format Content for distribution through the Kindle store. You may also use the Software for noncommercial purposes (e.g. to format works to be distributed at no charge). Subject to your compliance with all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Amazon grants to you a revocable, non-exclusive, non-assignable, non-sublicensable and non-transferable license to download, install and use the Software on a server or personal computer solely for these purposes. Any commercial use of this Software outside of the authorized purposes requires a separate agreement with Amazon.
Ewww. Gross. Amazon changed their licensing terms. Nasty. That's truly a new low for Amazon, and IMO, worthy of an antitrust complaint to the AG, given Amazon's dominance of the eBook market.
dgatwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 01:00 PM   #11
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,057
Karma: 40855212
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Basically the same terms Apple instituted for its ebook authoring software. Disappointing; sure, but hardly qualifies as any antitrust law violation in my eyes.
DiapDealer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 03:17 AM   #12
dgatwood
Curmudgeon
dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dgatwood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 277
Karma: 556004
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: iPad, iPhone, Nook Simple Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Basically the same terms Apple instituted for its ebook authoring software. Disappointing; sure, but hardly qualifies as any antitrust law violation in my eyes.
There are two key differences that make your argument dubious:

1. Apple does not have a near-monopoly on eBook sales. Amazon, on the other hand....

2. EPUB is a published open standard backed by a major standards body. I could create a compliant EPUB using nothing more than the basic tools that are built into my OS (text editor, ZIP tool) and sell it on Apple's store. Nobody is forcing or pressuring anyone to use iBooks Author.

MOBI, by contrast, is a poorly documented, mostly proprietary, binary format. Creating compliant MOBIs without kindlegen borders on impossible, and I've read reports of Amazon rejecting books created with other tools, so it sounds to me like they're basically trying to force everyone to use kindlegen.

So not the same situation at all. Not even close.
dgatwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 06:43 AM   #13
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,057
Karma: 40855212
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
One slight correction: the MOBI and KF8 formats are not "mostly proprietary." They're entirely proprietary and owned by Amazon. Their software creating ebooks in their formats. Why shouldn't it be up to them what you can commercially do with either?

Also... "near monopoly" is rather meaningless in terms of legality.

As I said, I'm disappointed that Amazon has chosen to take this particular stance, but that doesn't affect my ability to recognize their legal right to do so.

The OP's client wants to sell their book in the mobi format from their own website (there is no need for them to do so). There are ways to do so without violating Kindlegen's ToU. That the client would prefer NOT to use those other options does not translate into "being oppressed by Amazon."

Last edited by DiapDealer; 03-27-2013 at 06:47 AM.
DiapDealer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 02:29 PM   #14
William Ockham
Enthusiast
William Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipseWilliam Ockham can illuminate an eclipse
 
Posts: 36
Karma: 8164
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Kindle Keyboard
I am not a lawyer. I am not suggesting any course of action. Under the facts presented by the OP, I describe the following course of events as not violating Amazon's agreement. OP's client contracts with OP to produce an EPUB for client to sell on website. Client asks OP how would this ebook look on Amazon devices. OP runs Kindlegen on the EPUB and sends .mobi output to client. Client never uses Kindlegen and is not bound by the agreement between OP and Amazon. OP uses Kindlegen in a manner directly permitted by Amazon (to convert documents and preview them).

I'm not seeing the problem with Kindlegen licensing terms in this scenario.
William Ockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2013, 02:38 PM   #15
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,083
Karma: 18147936
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by srascal View Post
I tried converting using Calibre, but a large part of the CSS, namely font-faces and margin-left, were stripped out. I tried adjusting the settings on Mobi Output to say "both" or "new" for the mobi output type, but the resulting file did still not have the CSS properties when I tested the files onto my Kindle Fire.

If you know of a way to zip mobi files with KF8 formatting and media queries by using the command line or any kind of software, please let me know. Thanks
I think you are getting confused here. Mobi does not support embedded fonts. So that won;t carry over from an ePub > Mobi conversion. Also, when you use Kindlegen to convert from an ePub, you do keep any embedded fonts because Kindlegen creates a combined KF8/Mobi file and when you view this on a device that supports KF8 such as the Fire, you do get the embedded fonts as you are viewing the KF8 part.

If you want a version of your ePub for Kindles that also include the embedded fonts, use Calibre to convert to AZW3. That is KF8 and will keep the fonts and the margin formatting. Converting ePub to Mobi will only do so much depending on what features are used in thee ePub. There's nothing you can do about that other then to dumb down the ePub (not recommended at all).

You could have ePub, KF8 and Mobi versions of your eBook and go with that. But be advised that on eInk Kindles, there is a chance that the embedded fonts could possibly have line heights that are rather large. There's nothing you can do it in the coding to fix this. The only way to fix this is to edit the metrics of the fonts so they have a smaller line height.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Conversion from ePub to mobi crashes Calibre click22 Conversion 4 02-22-2013 10:56 AM
Converting Epub to Mobi: Calibre v KindleGen/Kindle Previewer Jane12 Kindle Formats 16 11-22-2012 07:47 PM
epub to mobi: Kindlegen vs Calibre rstoothoff Introduce Yourself 5 08-13-2012 07:27 AM
Calibre ePUB to mobi conversion help (with images) anamardoll Conversion 6 02-19-2012 10:53 PM
KindleGen: Epub to Mobi conversion virtual_ink Kindle Formats 21 11-18-2011 08:00 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.