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Old 03-20-2013, 10:00 AM   #46
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If Christmas wins, I'm nominating Die Hard because it's the best christmas movie of all time so let's read the book that it was based on.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #47
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If Christmas wins, I'm nominating Die Hard because it's the best christmas movie of all time so let's read the book that it was based on.
Is that you, Jon?
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:14 AM   #48
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If Christmas wins, I'm nominating Die Hard because it's the best christmas movie of all time so let's read the book that it was based on.
If that happens, you've got a guaranteed second for that nom. I've little interest in typical holiday fare.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #49
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Is that you, Jon?
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:51 PM   #50
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I am Jewish.

I said that because I do feel that any religious category will be possibly an issue. I don't want to read any Christmas related works. It could be taken as offensive.

MR has a separate section just for religion and politics and it has to be opted in for access. This is done for a reason. That reason is so we don't bring religious and political discussions to other threads/forums. So based on this, I feel that a Christmas based category should not be allowed on the basis of MR rules.

The December holidays are mostly religious. So unless we are going to read about Boxing Day and other non-religious holidays, MR rules would tell us that a religious discussion does not belong in the Book Club.

And just to say, I do find I am offended to have a Christmas based category in the voting even if it doesn't win.

Last edited by JSWolf; 03-24-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:17 PM   #51
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Since 5 days was up at 11:08 this morning shouldn't the nomination process be complete?
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:25 PM   #52
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I am Jewish.

I said that because I do feel that any religious category will be possibly an issue. I don't want to read any Christmas related works. It could be taken as offensive.

MR has a separate section just for religion and politics and it has to be opted in for access. This is done for a reason. That reason is so we don't bring religious and political discussions to other threads/forums. So based on this, I feel that a Christmas based category should not be allowed on the basis of MR rules.

The December holidays are mostly religious. So unless we are going to read about Boxing Day and other non-religious holidays, MR rules would tell us that a religious discussion does not belong in the Book Club.

And just to say, I do find I am offended to have a Christmas based category in the voting even if it doesn't win.
I'm not Christian either and I don't mind it, though I do come from a Christian background so I think I may mind a Christmas category less than people of other religions.

That said, I think you do have a point. When I was considering nominating the category I was purposely going to call it "Holiday" to include books from holidays of any religions and non-religious holidays (and even holidays in any month). It probably would've been mostly Christmas nominations, but it probably would have had nominations from other holidays and religions too which could've been pretty interesting.

I don't agree with you about holiday books being off-limits because they are "religious" though. Many aren't really religious honestly, any more than books that includes holidays or references to God or a religion (which is most non-sci-fi/fantasy fiction) are "religious" and off-limits. The P&R forum is to debate politics and religion and discuss more inflammatory subjects, not to stick anything or any book that has anything at all to do with the general concept of or a passing reference to politics or religion.

I do see that a "Christmas" category could be seen as a bit exclusionary though even though it's dominant in Western culture in December. While I wouldn't mind it, I also wouldn't mind a "Hanukkah" category or a "Kwanzaa" category (in fact, it'd be very interesting to see what nominations would come out of those categories!).
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:30 PM   #53
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The way I see it, Scrooge had a shock to the system (sort of). First he sees the door knocker change to be Marley's face. Then he sees Marley's ghost with all the chains. Then he get ghost of the past and goes to the past. He sees himself all alone in the school. Then we see him a little bit older and learn his father didn't want him at home and he had a sister that died in childbirth. We also see him at his first job and he falls in love and that falls apart as he gets more successful and wanting to make more money.

Next he gets the ghost of the present and we see Bob Cratchett and his family and Tiny Tim. Scrooge did not know the circumstances Cratchett was in and the situation with Tiny Tim. He also sees his Nephews house and how happy they are playing silly games and just being together.

Finally he gets the ghost of the future and learns of a man who died and nobody liked him at all. That life is better off without him. Also, he's found out that Tiny Tim has died. He finally finds out that it's his death and that really gave a shock to him.

All of these things combined really has show Scrooge the light. It's changed him. He didn't want to be that man who died alone. He didn't want Tiny Tim to have died. He changed so what he saw in the future would not come to pass.

He knew he could do something about the rest of his life and he did.
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I am Jewish.

I said that because I do feel that any religious category will be possibly an issue. I don't want to read any Christmas related works. It could be taken as offensive.
Ah, consistency.

Suppose it was a Christmas story about eating Chinese food and going to the movies?
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:11 PM   #54
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When I nominated the category, I had in mind works that had to do about the ambience of the period regardless of whether or not one actually believed in the Christian ethos. It could encompass attitudes fiercely critical of the season--such as Autumn Journal by Louis MacNeice,

However, if some find the category offensive or likely to cause offense, I have no objection if the moderator wishes to delete it--though it's a pity that such objections weren't made earlier.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #55
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When I nominated the category, I had in mind works that had to do about the ambience of the period regardless of whether or not one actually believed in the Christian ethos. It could encompass attitudes fiercely critical of the season--such as Autumn Journal by Louis MacNeice,

However, if some find the category offensive or likely to cause offense, I have no objection if the moderator wishes to delete it--though it's a pity that such objections weren't made earlier.
And I seconded it. I certainly didn't do so expecting that we would be suggesting a book of a religious nature, and personally I probably wouldn't be interested in reading that.

However, if Jon has become more concerned about reading a book with a Christmas theme since he read "A Christmas Carol", then I am in agreement with fantasyfan that I shall not object if others agree it should be deleted from the list of categories.
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #56
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Christmas is religious? Since when?



Sorry. I am an atheist by choice and I celebrate Christmas. If anything, Christmas should offend Christians.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:19 PM   #57
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The nominations are closed, and the poll will be up shortly.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #58
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for my final choice I'll nominate Stories with a Christmas theme.
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I'll second Lottery 3 and Stories with a Christmas theme.
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I third a Christmas-related work.
In light of the controversy, would any of you object to a changing of the category name to Stories with a Winter Holiday theme?
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:07 PM   #59
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Tom, I believe that we should stick to the Christmas theme, and let those who nominate a title explain why their nomination is appropriate.

The only person who is offended by Christmas is Jon, and I do not believe that it is reasonable to accommodate him.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:51 PM   #60
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I think Jon's got a valid point if view, and I think the title change would make it easier for people to support the category, but since it's not unanimous among the three of you, the original title stays.

My personal opinion: don't expect to garner very many votes. But I've been wrong before.
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