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Old 03-17-2013, 10:07 PM   #16
DNSB
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Originally Posted by BWinmill View Post
That depends. Was this before or after Apple removed DRM from their music? The way things stand today, Apple could go under tomorrow and people would still have their music collections. The way things were several years ago, Apple could have gone under, and consumers would be in the same position that they were in with Yahoo and Microsoft.
At that time, I seem to remember that Apple had quite a bit of content that DRM free ( iTunes Plus???). Around Jan. 2009 was when they dropped DRM on music entirely. You could also burn your protected music to an audio CD from within iTunes and get an unprotected version that way.

Sorry but going by memory here and I was not purchasing much digital music at that time.

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Old 03-18-2013, 06:01 AM   #17
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Edit: Just checked prices on my latest purchase, The Knight by Gene Wolfe: Kobo ebook $5.59 ($7.99 - 30% discount code), Amazon ebook $9.42, paperback from local bookshop $16.95, paperback from Amazon US $22.61 ($10.05 + $12.59 postage). (All NZ dollars)
Those are outrageous prices/price differences! Why is that? Is it just all import costs? Are books by NZ writers just as expensive? Maan I'm glad I don't live in NZ. (Although I'd love to go there some day.)

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Personally, I would have made that decision before investing the money, but that's just cause i'm cheap...cheepcheepcheep. Which is maybe why I love birds [OT].
Hahaha you've got a fun rant going on there.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:24 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by book64 View Post
Have been reading that kindle books are not actually bought( even though some of them cost nearly as much as the actual book !!!! )
It says they still belong to kindle. How can that be?
I have lots of them!
Makes me want start buying paperbacks again !

What is the situation regarding all my Kobo books?
Google doesn't tell me.
Another interesting question is, who else is allowed to read the ebooks you buy?

The answer from Kobo is that no-one else is allowed to read them. Only the person who bought the ebook is allowed to read it.

At least Amazon allows anyone with access to a device registered to your account to read it.

Last edited by pdurrant; 03-18-2013 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
Another interesting question is, who else is allowed to read the ebooks you buy?

The answer from Kobo is that no-one else is allowed to read them. Only the person who bought the ebook is allowed to read it.

At least Amazon allows anyone with access to a device registered to your account to read it.
In both instances books can be read from devices associated with the user account. I forget if Kobo allows 5 or 6.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:26 AM   #20
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In both instances books can be read from devices associated with the user account. I forget if Kobo allows 5 or 6.
Apologies for slightly de-railing this thread, but you're talking about the technical aspect here. I'm talking about what the licence terms you've agreed to mean, according to the people who wrote them.

I asked Kobo specifically "May I let my spouse read ebooks that I have bought (on a device authorised to my Adobe ID)?"

They said "Legally, only the account holder has license to use the material".

(See the link in my previous message for the full text of the emails in question.)
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:47 AM   #21
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pdurrant, when I read that the first time you posted in, months back, I read it as "Legally (wink, wink) only the account holder has license to use the material." As the account holder, I use the material by loading it on the device my husband uses. An answer that said something like "Only the account holder can read books purchased from the Kobo store" would elicit a different response from me.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by taming View Post
I read it as "Legally (wink, wink) only the account holder has license to use the material."
You might think that, but they have said that is what their terms mean.

I doubt that it'd stand up in a court, and I can't see that Kobo would ever take someone to court for this.

But it's this kind of thing that gives ebooks a bad name. Kobo should not expect people to break their license terms.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:04 AM   #23
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Hahaha you've got a fun rant going on there.
thanks
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:06 AM   #24
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What you buy when you get a book is the right to read it on a device, you do not have as much rights to the materiel as you do in printed books. My personal favorite publisher does not use any manner of DRM, however states that you are buying the right to read it.
I respectfully disagree. When you buy an eBook, you buy a license to read the material on appropritely licensed device(s) - it is possible to ahve more than one licensed device.

When you buy a paper book, you buy a license to read the book only on the medium provided. It isn't legal to start making copies to do with as you please.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
You might think that, but they have said that is what their terms mean.

I doubt that it'd stand up in a court, and I can't see that Kobo would ever take someone to court for this.

But it's this kind of thing that gives ebooks a bad name. Kobo should not expect people to break their license terms.
You will find elsewhere in the Kobo forums advice from (people claiming to be) representatives of Kobo who counsel posters on ways that more than one person can simultaneously read a purchased book. Although the license terms may explicitly state taht it is for the personal use of the licensee, clearly the company does not seek to enforce the license this way. Similarly, if this ever made it to civil court (which is doubtful, and this is a civil matter as it relates to contracts), it is unlikely that the license tems could be enforced at the individual level due to joint ownership amoungst married persons and their minor children.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mrs_Often View Post
It is ridiculous indeed. And understandable that you are fuming. It's a long term discussion though. The DRM is to try and prevent piracy... of course it's much easier to share a digital book with many people (over the internet for example). And when you do share, you don't give up your copy like you would do with a paper book: you keep your copy, and another copy is made for the person who'll be 'borrowing' the book from you. DRM is meant to prevent this sort of viral sharing.

But DRM isn't sophisticated enough. I think it should have a built in "lending out" option, where you temporarily give up your reading rights and transfer them to a friend, like the library does when you borrow a digital book from them. But alas, the DRM is locked. Which in my eyes only invites piracy instead of preventing it.

And yes, I agree with you, if you don't get full rights, the ebook should be cheaper than the paper book. That would diminish piracy, as it'll be easier to just buy a book to read instead of downloading it illegally from somewhere as it's cheap anyway
You make perfect sense Mrs often.
I love reading "proper" books. So will never stop buying them. Nothing takes the place of being the first to read a new book in my hand.
However ebooks are great and I have discovered lots of new authors that I would have never found otherwise.But lots of them are only slightly cheaper than real books.
I have no desire to lend them out.
Just want to know I will still have them 5 years from now to browse through. The same option I have with my paper books.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #27
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you should have my memory...i can pretty much read anything again and it's almost like a new book

But seriously (to the OP)
I agree about a lot of what you said. Which is why I refused to buy an ereader for so long, despite my habit of moving countries every few years. But fortunately for me, I *love* classics. So I decided it was worth the money to buy the ereader and not buy ebooks (generally...not that I am saying I will never ever buy an ebook)....just get the classics for free... There are so many thousands of books available which are now public domain....that's what made having an ereader worthwhile in my case....

But since you've already bought lots of kindle books, you have to make a choice to follow the law, or to get the rights you think are fair by de-DRMing them. Personally, I would have made that decision before investing the money, but that's just cause i'm cheap...cheepcheepcheep. Which is maybe why I love birds [OT].
Not all of us are as wise as you
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:13 PM   #28
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True in many respects, but I'd add two caveats. Some people do reread books, particularly people who read non-fiction books or are selective about the fiction that they read. The other thing is that some people have huge TBR piles. They may only read the books once, but may not get to a book immediately.


That is me usually.

My solution is to read library books or books devoid of DRM. Libraries make more sense for those single read titles because reading a book once and tossing it into the dustbin is an extravagant waste of money (at least to some of us). DRM free books come in the public domain variety, CC variety, and enlightened publisher variety -- so there is a lot of choice.
Our local library sadly is useless for ebooks
Since I read 3 or 4 books a week all the new books are not there.
Is it not possible to join more than one local e library?
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:48 PM   #29
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As eBook DRM is being discussed, I thought I'd link to this, which could be worth a read.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #30
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Have been reading that kindle books are not actually bought( even though some of them cost nearly as much as the actual book !!!! )
It says they still belong to kindle. How can that be?
I have lots of them!
Makes me want start buying paperbacks again !

What is the situation regarding all my Kobo books?
Google doesn't tell me.
DRM DIGITAL RIGHTS MANAGEMENT.

As with anything that is copy righted you own the book. What you do not own is the right to sell it or make money on it in the future. That said in the digital age you only own the digital copy of it which means you an read it and enjoy it for life on any of your digital E-readers. You do not have the right to transfer the digital content to other users nor do you have the right to copy and redistribute the digital content to other users. You pay for the privilege of owning the book not the right to sell the same book over and over free of charge. Kobo has the Digital Rights to sell the book over over and over to anyone who wishes to buy the book but they pay the publisher a commission (fee) to do so. The Publisher in turn pays the author a fee for the right to publish and sell their books. The digital content you purchased is 100 percent yours as far as being able to use the information on your own E-reader after paying the fee. Any other use is illegal and strictly speaking immoral.

Regards

Jack
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