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Old 02-20-2008, 09:18 PM   #16
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Getting back to the topic originally posed by the tragic who started this thread,

"pod" is not good. It it simlpy too trendy/silly. I like the simplicity of calling an electrophoretical display enabled digital text and image processing micro-computing device a "Reader." OMNI-READER seems awkward and pretentious. Personally, for the sake of clarity, I refer to "ebooks" as digital texts, and think that if anything, the device should be an EBOOK.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:04 AM   #17
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu;151712 Personally, for the sake of clarity, I refer to "ebooks" as digital texts, and think that if anything, the [I
device [/I] should be an EBOOK.
To avoid ambiguity, I prefer to call the text an eBook, the device for reading it an eBook Reader, and the person who uses the device an eBook Reader Reader .
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:31 AM   #19
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The issue is to distinguish between the device, the text and its particular format.

This is a challenge because the traditional terminology is based on the paper book which is both the physical device and the text in one.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:56 AM   #20
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@ Zelda: As you can see, I have a thing for tentacles.
;-
yes i noticed that... ;-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospect View Post
The issue is to distinguish between the device, the text and its particular format.

This is a challenge because the traditional terminology is based on the paper book which is both the physical device and the text in one.
i didn't spend much time thinking about it first, but when i talk about the whole e-book experience, i tell my friends "i have a liseuse" and then they look at me funny so i explain "it's an electronic book / e-book (livre électronique)" (and then they're still confused so i say "like an ipod for books"...), and i call what i read on it e-texts or digital texts.

this seems logical to me ; traditional terminology does make an amalgam of the content and the container, which poses problem when trying to establish a new terminology, however to me the word "book" refers more to the container than the content because the same content could be presented in the form of a scroll, or a clay tablet, or graffitti on a wall.

for an example, take the dead sea scrolls : as their name suggests, they were originally presented in the form of scrolls. if we copy the exact glyphs onto individual sheets of paper and bind them together along one side, is it still a scroll ? no, it's a book (codex) ; but it's the same text (content) of the dead sea scrolls.

before there were different names for different formats of books : in folio, in quarto, etc. these are no longer really used but we refer to our own different formats such as "hardcover" or "paperback" or "magazine" or "newspaper". but the content of all these could be the same.

a device, i would say, belongs to the set "clay tablet, scroll, codex, folio, book, magazine etc." with the most common generic word today being "book", whereas the content, regardless of the form it is presented in, is always text (well, or images / hieroglyphics / whathaveyou, but let's not complicate the matter further !).

so a device seems logically to be an electronic book (e-book), because it is the generic container, and the content (text) is an e-text because it is in an immaterial form, it is not printed / immutable.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:03 AM   #21
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I call mine a 505 and what I am reading an eBook.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:26 AM   #22
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i was going to post this here but i thought it might be too off-topic, so i made a new thread instead.

Edit : specially dedicated to Prospect, who is norwegian, and doesn't even need the subtitles...
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:27 AM   #23
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I call mine my iLiad, but sometimes I describe it as my library. Since people usually see me making notes on it, many seem to assume it's a small tablet. That works too (for the iLiad). Those who have seen me reading and have asked about it already seem to have grasped that it's a way to read books -- they're more interested in where I got it, how much it costs, how well it works, etc.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel View Post
a device, i would say, belongs to the set "clay tablet, scroll, codex, folio, book, magazine etc." with the most common generic word today being "book", whereas the content, regardless of the form it is presented in, is always text (well, or images / hieroglyphics / whathaveyou, but let's not complicate the matter further !).

so a device seems logically to be an electronic book (e-book), because it is the generic container, and the content (text) is an e-text because it is in an immaterial form, it is not printed / immutable.
Zelda,

From an etymological perspective you are correct since the word “book” has its roots in boards made of beechwood.

I however think that your conclusion is not the best.

An important difference between the paper book and the “e-reader devices”/”readpads” is that a paper book is never empty but always has content (if not a nodepad), and the content of a paper book can not be changed.

In addition to being a physical container for the abstract text a book, in its traditional meaning, is also is a psychological/logic container: a complete novel, a collection of short texts, a dictionary, a textbook etc. I you translate the “content“part of a paper book to “text” this nuance is missed.

I think that “book” as a psychological/logic container is more established and harder to substitute than “book” as a physical container. The word “text” will not do since it – imho – is too generic. The mobipocket store will sell electronic books not electronic texts.

I would therefore argue that “book” would be the content and not the device.

While it is difficult to come up with substitutes for the word “book” as a logic container it is easy to come up with suggestions for book as the physical container. In music we have mp3 “players”, so the word “reader” would not be far fetched. Alternatively brand names like Cybook or E-reader is possible candidates like the (initially Sony) walkman.

I am not native English so it is stupid of me to suggest, but in my ears “readpad” sounds ok.
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:30 PM   #25
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Prospect,
interesting point, it brings up the added complication that we are searching for a generic term in a context which has already begun to create a vocabulary (whether or not it was completely deliberate and born out of serious reflection is irrelevant). as you say,

Quote:
The mobipocket store will sell electronic books not electronic texts.
i think here the polyglot nature of this forum actually will complicate things sometimes (although in the end it means we as a group are possibly best suited for such discussions !). what you say about the "Psychological / logic" container is very interesting because i think it reveals a nuance (in my own psychology) which possibly is not translating well : in french, the word "text" can be used in some contexts in much the way you are using "book" ; that is, it has a larger meaning than only "series of glyphs for written communication", but rather can extend to "a written work" like a complete novel, etc. The difference is between "un texte" (a text : a written work) and "du texte" ([some] text : uncountable noun, series of glyphs). so my logic is weakened in english and therefore perhaps not well adapted to this search for a generic (english) term. that's the beauty of "liseuse" of course, which i will continue to use in french ! it is a very elegant solution, i think, although i did not think of it myself.

given this linguistic particularity, i will agree that what i had called an e-text is probably better called an e-book. (i think i saw it referred to as a "livrel", from "livre électronique" in a french blog, but that's neither here nor there).

unfortunately this brings us back to the original problem, since following this logic brings us back to "e-reader" for the device, not viable because it creates confusion with the format of the same name.

a readpad is a reasonable suggestion but to me it evokes a pad of paper (like a notepad) for writing on myself, and while some devices have this feature most of them don't and regardless it's not their primary function.

i also like nekokami's idea of calling it a library (or an e-library), however in my mind, this is too large a term : if i say "my library" i am referring to my complete collection of books (whatever their format), and i will never have ALL my books on my device (not even all my e-books), only a selection. "my partial library" or even "my portable library" is instantly less elegant.

in an attempt to be constructive, following this logic, may i suggest a read-box ? this makes it clear that the device is the container, and also explicitly evokes its function, and as far as i know there is no format of that name. it also has the implication that *many* textes (e-books...) can be inside it. it reminds me of people who say they use a "linux box" for example, or of a music-box. (or maybe we could say a text-box, or a book-box... i think i just like the sonority of the word "box").

maybe the best solution is for everyone to learn french and we can all call them "liseuses" .

Last edited by zelda_pinwheel; 02-21-2008 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:34 PM   #26
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...or to learn the wonderful language of the brave Norwegians and use the word "leseplate"
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Old 02-21-2008, 12:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
...or to learn the wonderful language of the brave Norwegians and use the word "leseplate"
hm, perhaps, but of course i never eat on my device !

thinking about it some more, here are some more suggestions (now you've got me started...) :

e-codex (i think it refers definitely, specifically, to the container / form, although i beleive codices are supposed to be hand-written... and technically, a collection of sheets of paper bound on one side, but we'll call that poetic licence )

omniBook (from omnibus), for the idea of many (ok, technically *all* but let's not quibble, we can say it's figurative) books inside

e-folio (i like the pun on "in folio" and etymologically "electronic leaves of paper" makes sense especially with e-ink screens...)

epiTome (because i like puns, sorry !) from Tome with the implication that it is the BEST tome because it contains whatever you want ! and it already starts with "e" for electronic... hm, maybe that one is really trying too hard.

i think of this list i prefer omniBook. please tell me no-one has made a format with this name.

EDIT : arg ! hewlett packard make a portable computer called omniBook. copiers !!

Last edited by zelda_pinwheel; 02-21-2008 at 01:00 PM. Reason: stupid hewlett packard !!
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:04 PM   #28
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In english I've just been calling them eReader, which I rather like.

I agree with Zelda that readpad makes me think of a notepad and would fit well for the Iliad and other writable devices, but not so well for the devices where you can only read.

Read-box is rather nice, I could be persuaded to use it.

When it comes to norwegian I call mine "lesebrett" which I've seen used in articles. I guess it translates to readboard or something like it. Not all that different from "leseplate" as both "plate" and "brett" are flat (often rectangular) objects...
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:12 PM   #29
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I call them e-reader. And even if JSWolf will start complaining again, i will keep naming them this. I do not care if it is the same name as for an ebook format and the according software.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:02 PM   #30
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I do like deriding trendy techy things by adding the "i" suffix. One, because an lonely I should never be left so naked and small, and two because the cult of Macs/Graphics artists sometimes annoys me.
Hey I make my living as a graphic artist and I am a Mac guy! But I totally agree with you the "i" stuff is way overused.
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