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Old 02-27-2013, 03:47 PM   #61
JSWolf
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Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Perhaps I'm missing something, and I am tired, but I don't see anything especially bad about that paragraph.

Seems to convey a "Marsha Marsha Marsha!" state of mind reasonably well.
But without the "John! John! John!", it's worthless.

This has nothing to do with the Brady Bunch and all to do with Stan Freberg and it's well before the Brady Bunch ever existed.

Quote:
Stan Freberg John & Marsha Lyrics
Songwriters: FREBERG, STAN/LIEBERT, BILLY
JOHN AND MARSHA
Stan Freberg

This song consists of a woman's voice calling "John" and a
man's voice calling "Marsha". The intonation, emphasis, pronunciation,
and other characteristics of the voices tell a story, starting with a
young couple's love, going through quarrels, making-up, etc. and finishing
with the voices of a very elderly couple.
A very imaginative song, but the lyrics would just be

"John...Marsha...John...Marsha...John...Marsha ..."

Last edited by JSWolf; 02-27-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I find it amusing when people gnash their teeth over the "sheer amount of drivel" out there when it comes to self-published authors. As if there is no hope at all to find their way through to some gems. As if they have to navigate it at all.

Unless you're in the habit of blindly grabbing traditionally published books/authors on a whim, navigating the slushpile of indies is no different than how people have always populated their TBR lists: word of mouth, recommendations from friends/associates, online reviews/blogs, online reading communities, etc. And now sample chapters. Cream still rises. It's not like you're stranded in a jungle of books with no options other than "poke and hope" (any more than you've ever been, anyway).

And if you are in the habit of buying traditionally published books at complete and utter random... well then you're no stranger to the occasional piece of garbage anyway.

The idea that there's an endless morrass of indie books with absolutely no means of separating the wheat from the chaff is quite tired, and needs to be put to rest.

And hey... if you don't feel you should have to do even the slightest bit of research before trying an unknown author, then you still likely have enough traditionally vetted material to last you a lifetime anyway.

If it's "bad writing," it'll show up in the sample.
I didn't even know what an "indie" book or self-published book was until I got my first Kindle and started reading this forum. I read a lot, but I didn't know the ins and outs of publishing. When I downloaded books, I went by the Amazon reviews. If a book got mostly 4 or 5 star ratings, I thought that meant it was a great book. Naive of me, I know. So, the reasons above are why I was so surprised at how many of the books I downloaded were awful. Up until the Kindle, I got 90% of my books from thrift stores and Half Price books. Most of the books in those places were published by mainstream publishers or were classics.

Anyway, I now know better how to choose books.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:12 PM   #63
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Anyway, I now know better how to choose books.
And did you feel the learning process was a terrible burden that sapped your strength and left you bitter and bewildered?
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:40 PM   #64
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And did you feel the learning process was a terrible burden that sapped your strength and left you bitter and bewildered?
It did leave me frustrated and exhausted so I stopped.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApK View Post
Perhaps I'm missing something, and I am tired, but I don't see anything especially bad about that paragraph.

Seems to convey a "Marsha Marsha Marsha!" state of mind reasonably well.
ApK, I agree with you. Now, a whole series of paragraphs in that vein would be off-putting, but that single paragraph expresses the character, and I would not edit it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:51 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Blossom View Post
This book here is an example of just that. I blame the editor. It's missing simple words that my brain has to insert. The scenes run together and the characters' action are usually forgotten or never described. One minute they are against the door so how did they get on the bed? It's never mention. They go to a restaurant to eat, order drinks have a very long conversation then just get up and leave without eating or paying. No mention of what happened to the meal. It's stuff like that will just drives me crazy! The second book does not have these issues.
Why not primarily blame the writer who was responsible for the omissions and disjointedness in the first place?
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #67
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It did leave me frustrated and exhausted so I stopped.
So you're good to go now?
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
Why not primarily blame the writer who was responsible for the omissions and disjointedness in the first place?
Because as a professional publisher they should've never Let it go to press. It's the editors' job to make sure this doesn't happen. This isn't some self published book. It's a book I paid $7 for and I expected it to be at least readable.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
Why not primarily blame the writer who was responsible for the omissions and disjointedness in the first place?
Ah, but isn't it the job of the editor to catch such errors and then have the writer fix them? And what if the writer and editor are one and the same person?
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:33 PM   #70
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Bad is a pejorative term best reserved for college lit courses, or conversations with friends. If used in public, the ramifications can be hurtful or counterproductive. New Yorker curmudgeon, John Updike, wrote an unflattering review of Toni Morrison's novel, A Mercy. Her supporters probably fired back that she has a Nobel prize and he doesn't. Both writers tend to get stuck in a limited universe, which causes readers to shy away from their works. Neither has sold as many books as Stephenie Meyer, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

The politically correct phrase for a book that does not succeed in the eye of the beholder is less than brilliant. And, this could either mean that the author failed in developing/presenting a story, or the subject he/she chose failed to attract enough interest on the part of the reader.

Too many lumps of coal masquerade as brilliant writing. That is the ugly truth, no doubt about it. To succeed as a reader, you have to sharpen your diamond finding skills.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:50 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Catlady View Post
ApK, I agree with you. Now, a whole series of paragraphs in that vein would be off-putting, but that single paragraph expresses the character, and I would not edit it.
I'm the same - the paragraph in isolation seems fine to me. Repetition of a word isn't always a bad thing.

But of course, I haven't read the subsequent paragraphs, we could have a whole chapter of "propergation" which would well and truly drive me nuts.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:20 PM   #72
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And did you feel the learning process was a terrible burden that sapped your strength and left you bitter and bewildered?
Yep!
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #73
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Because as a professional publisher they should've never Let it go to press. It's the editors' job to make sure this doesn't happen. This isn't some self published book. It's a book I paid $7 for and I expected it to be at least readable.
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Ah, but isn't it the job of the editor to catch such errors and then have the writer fix them? And what if the writer and editor are one and the same person?
Yes, it's the editor's job, but the author still has the primary responsibility. You don't know how many problems the editor found and resolved; you only see the ones that were overlooked.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:35 AM   #74
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Yes, it's the editor's job, but the author still has the primary responsibility. You don't know how many problems the editor found and resolved; you only see the ones that were overlooked.
That's just it I don't think it was checked by an editor other than the automatic spell check. The book is full of problems like this. The writer had self published before this and none of her other books had these problems. It's almost like they published the wrong file instead of the edited version.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:58 AM   #75
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