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Old 02-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #211
CWatkinsNash
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Originally Posted by Pulpmeister View Post
One reason is that there is no objective measure of greatness in literature. All the usual criteria are subjective. (Which is why literary awards are not infallible guides to literary greatness.)

My own view is there is an objective measure of literary greatness--possibly more than one.

(snip)

If, when Agatha's books finally enter the public domain 70 years after her death, they are still selling in outrageous numbers, it could be very hard to deny that she is a great writer.

Literary snobs will of course have no trouble denying it.
The problem with this, in the context of what we're discussing, is that it assumes a defense is required or even desirable, which often plays right in to what the snob wants - placing the burden of validation on the person they are dumping their opinions on. It gives their position more weight than it deserves.

Yes, as was already mentioned, history shows us that works once sneered at are now held aloft as classics, but face-to-face snobbery rarely comes from a position of reason. It usually comes from a need for self-validation - "My choices are the correct ones". We humans often have trouble accepting that what is right for us is not universally correct, and the things that we value are not of value to all.

Of course, there is also the chance that someone once told them, "Fiction will rot your brain," and they believed it. Judging others for reading fiction is easier than admitting your whole reading life is a lie.

The most humane thing to do is to let them see that you simply don't care if others judge your reading choices, and that you are happy reading whatever the heck you want to.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #212
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I try to not judge others on what they read. You should read what you want and enjoy.
I had posted earlier that I read almost anything except Romance. I am not disparaging those who do read Romance. I have never read it and in no way able or want to judge those who do read Romance. Maybe the reason I do not read it is because subconsciously I am afraid I would like it.
Actually, I am pretty sure if I did read it I would find myself reading more Romance.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:53 PM   #213
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I try to not judge others on what they read. You should read what you want and enjoy.
I had posted earlier that I read almost anything except Romance. I am not disparaging those who do read Romance. I have never read it and in no way able or want to judge those who do read Romance. Maybe the reason I do not read it is because subconsciously I am afraid I would like it.
Actually, I am pretty sure if I did read it I would find myself reading more Romance.
Apache
I find your statement interesting and is why I previously brought up the point about opening a conversation with the so called snob. It is what my mother told me I should do, since I should not fight. I have had conversations with church ladies, teachers and men that say romance is porn. I bought up to the church ladies that "judge not" rule. I even told the man leading my church class that trying to place all the blame on Delilah was wrong because in that society she really did not have any say in how she lived. I got some people to read The Warlock in Spite of Himself after telling me it was evil and changed some minds.

I even have gotten some men to pick up a romance and read or listen to one. Did I change everyone's perceptions. . . No. But, maybe I got them to be more tolerant, to step outside the box, or just shut up and enjoy something they did not think they would.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #214
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- Read fantasy ("That's just pulp.")
- Read Shakespeare ("Are you trying to be important?")
- Read most things in between ("Why read / waste time anyway?")
- Use DELL computers ("Not as hip as Apple.")
- Can write software and am good with computers ("Nerd.")
- Play Chess ("Nerd².")
- Play Go ("Nerd³.")
- Play RPG's / AD&D ("There is no word beyond Nerd for this.")
- Still enjoy some 15 year old computer games ("You're stuck in the past.")
- Play a Hammond organ. ("Cheesy." Until they hear Booker T. & the MG's...)
- Take pictures using a fully manual camera ("Why so difficult?")
- Don't use Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media. ("Anti-social idiot.")
- Want to be alone most of the time ("You've got a social disorder?")
- Do not have a girlfriend at this time ("You're afraid of women, or what?")
- Don't watch any TV except for documentaries and DVD's. ("That's just... moronic.")
- I listen to country music, organ music, new age, ambient, or even elevator music. ("WTF...")
Most of these points fits well for me too, but I've never been subjected to any kind of snobbery (at least not that I'm avare of). But if I had, I wouldn't care either
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:08 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash View Post
I can keep my snobbery aimed at the book rather than the reader. Sometimes I even envy their ability to get past bad writing enough to enjoy the story, as that's often more than I can manage.
I'm working on aiming my snobbery at the book, not the person. It doesn't help when you get pressured by the Squealers to read these books. I read the first Twilight and wasn't impressed. Now, it's 50 Shades that they want me to read..no thanks. I've said this before, I'll say it again,

If I want written porn, far better books out there..

Disclaimer: I read the first chapter of 50 Shades and thumbed through looking for the dirty parts,lol. Nothing I saw impressed me.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #216
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oh heck, I'll read the cornflake packet if that's all there is.............
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:46 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Matteob View Post
I must admit I have been scornful of people reading that 50 shades drivel but i think people should read whatever turns them on lol TBH it works both ways though and i have always been sceptical of people who have unread copies of war and piece on their shelves
What might turn out to be the silver lining in those 50 Shades books is that they are getting people to read who might not have picked up a book before - just like the Harry Potter books did.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:48 PM   #218
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My parents both worked in the education field. As the youngest of four and the only reader they always loved pointing out the quiet kid in the corner reading.

Flash forward a heck o' a lot of years. The 92 year old ex-history teacher turned administrator says what he thinks (as most at that age do):

"Why do you waste so much time on fiction?"
My reply to questions like that has always been, "At least it keeps me off the streets". That usually stops them dead.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:53 PM   #219
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During the pre-forensics-show days of true crime fascination, I used to read about killers regularly for research. One day, I happened to be reading a book about Jeffrey Dahmer in a coffee shop when someone stopped to ask what I could possibly see in such a sick story.

I told them that reading books about killers was cathartic because it helped me to suppress my urge to mutilate people in cafés. The person grew quieter after that and I was able to finish my chapter.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 02-24-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #220
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In 2010, Google estimated that there were over 129 million books published. Even if one is a prolific reader, with the ability to read and remember 20000 books, that is a small percentage of the total. Thus, what you read, and whether it is one of the greatest books ever written, is not material. Because, you can't achieve any goal other than a modest one.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/20280...published.html
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:37 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Xanthe View Post
What might turn out to be the silver lining in those 50 Shades books is that they are getting people to read who might not have picked up a book before - just like the Harry Potter books did.
Actually there is another silver lining from 50 shades. Look at all the Indie authors being picked up by the big 6 and other well known publishers trying to find the next big thing to print.

It's changing the romance genre. These authors who are being picked up were able to write how they wished to write and not in strict guidelines that most mainstream romance authors are stuck with. It will be very interesting to their next published work if they are allowed to still write outside the rules or not.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:48 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash View Post
I can keep my snobbery aimed at the book rather than the reader. Sometimes I even envy their ability to get past bad writing enough to enjoy the story, as that's often more than I can manage.
Same

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Originally Posted by piperclassique View Post
oh heck, I'll read the cornflake packet if that's all there is.............
Same lol.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:49 PM   #223
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During the pre-forensics-show days of true crime fascination, I used to read about killers regularly for research. One day, I happened to be reading a book about Jeffrey Dahmer in a coffee shop when someone stopped to ask what I could possibly see in such a sick story.

I told them that reading books about killers was cathartic because it helped me to suppress my urge to mutilate people in cafés. The person grew quieter after that and I was able to finish my chapter.
You are my new hero haha.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:13 PM   #224
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oh heck, I'll read the cornflake packet if that's all there is.............
I will read whatever is on a photo of advertised ereader too...
I was a snob once. I put my nose high up at the mention of Harry Potter. Until I decided to try what the heck it is all about and prove 'em wrong you see. And I loved it But somehow I don't have the need to see for myself Twilight or 50 shades (shudder) I dread to think...
Nowadays I have no one to discuss my books with. I occassionally recommend something to a couple I like and so far they liked my choices.

edited to add, if it is written badly, I will discontinue, no point to suffer.

Last edited by Chi Cygni; 02-24-2013 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:55 PM   #225
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oh heck, I'll read the cornflake packet if that's all there is.............
I have been known to read the backs of spray cans if I am in a bathroom without a book.
Apache
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