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Old 02-15-2013, 01:25 AM   #16
SeaKing
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It was the same with many legacy businesses that are no more. The big guys kept it going and talked up what a great job they were doing, and kept those bonuses coming to themselves and their favorite cronies. Just eking out a few more years til retirement.
Not taking any risks. Not taking on the future.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:05 AM   #17
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I have the Nook Tablet (not the HD, but the original) and am very pleased with it. But I think the arguments run in two divergent streams.

First is the group of buyers who want a tablet tablet, that is a tablet that lets them do anything and everything that a tablet computer can do plus act as an ebook reading device. This group wants more and better apps, video, and other digital media, in addition to ebooks.

The second group, which is the group to which I belong, doesn't care about anything but being able to read ebooks conveniently and want an inexpensive but good tablet that permits it. Perhaps on the rare occasion a member of this group would watch Netflix or download an app.

B&N doesn't know which group to cater to and thus satisfies neither group with its hardware. But from what I have read, the Nook HD does the same things as the Kindle Fire. The difference is that the KF offers more apps and videos. I raise this because I find it odd that people want more "freedom" with fromthe Nook Tablets than they do from the KF.

This is a problem that current B&N management has no clue how to resolve.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
The second group, which is the group to which I belong, doesn't care about anything but being able to read ebooks conveniently and want an inexpensive but good tablet that permits it.
That is me,too
I don't do mobile gaming or video--the living room's the place for that.
I just wanted a hardcover class color reader and I really wanted to go with Nook because of the sdcard.
In the end the lockdown settled the issue.
Amazon plays some petty games with their app store but it took me less than 5 minutes to not only get Nook up and running on the Fire, but also the competing 1mobile app store. No hacks, no sideloading; the Silk browser let me d/l and install 1mobile just fine.
Whatever their expectations for the tablet, at least Amazon lets me do whatever I want right out of the box.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by SeaKing View Post
It was the same with many legacy businesses that are no more. The big guys kept it going and talked up what a great job they were doing, and kept those bonuses coming to themselves and their favorite cronies. Just eking out a few more years til retirement.
Not taking any risks. Not taking on the future.
The great? Newspapers
Sears
K Mart
Circuit City
Best Buy
Comp USA
Woolworth
Roses
McCroys
Encyclopedia Britannica
The thing is, B&N and some of these companies you mention are in businesses that are in decline due to technological advances and consumer behaviors beyond their control. B&N should have been trying to compete directly with Amazon online right from Amazon's inception. They had the clout and resources to crush Amazon. But they didn't have the expertise. Instead they ignored them and saturated the country with B&M stores because that's where the profits were at the time.

Their strategy was successful in the short term. By the time they realized it wouldn't work long-term they didn't have a whole lot of options left. The Nook was a good try but it was too late. Plus you have to realize that for every visionary success like Amazon there are hundreds if not thousands of failures, so the business decisions are not always as easy as they seem in hindsight.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:46 AM   #20
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I bought a Nook Color when it first came out. It was a ebook reader that easily became a full fledged tablet (with a little tinkering) at a very decent price. But B&N did nothing to push ahead with this product that was the talk of the town. Instead they sat on their laurels and let the competition just roar on by. It just took them so long to do anything. By the time they came out with an upgraded product, the Fire was already out and the Nexus was on the horizon. By then it was just too late for B&N.

I feel that they missed a golden opportunity to establish themselves as a big player in the 7" tablet market.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
The second group, which is the group to which I belong, doesn't care about anything but being able to read ebooks conveniently and want an inexpensive but good tablet that permits it. Perhaps on the rare occasion a member of this group would watch Netflix or download an app.
The problem comes in when this group starts shopping around and finds that they can have a full blown tablet for a similar price, "just in case" they want to do more with it. Even if it's just to run different reading apps.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
I have the Nook Tablet (not the HD, but the original) and am very pleased with it. But I think the arguments run in two divergent streams.

First is the group of buyers who want a tablet tablet, that is a tablet that lets them do anything and everything that a tablet computer can do plus act as an ebook reading device. This group wants more and better apps, video, and other digital media, in addition to ebooks.

The second group, which is the group to which I belong, doesn't care about anything but being able to read ebooks conveniently and want an inexpensive but good tablet that permits it. Perhaps on the rare occasion a member of this group would watch Netflix or download an app.

B&N doesn't know which group to cater to and thus satisfies neither group with its hardware. But from what I have read, the Nook HD does the same things as the Kindle Fire. The difference is that the KF offers more apps and videos. I raise this because I find it odd that people want more "freedom" with fromthe Nook Tablets than they do from the KF.

This is a problem that current B&N management has no clue how to resolve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
That is me,too
I don't do mobile gaming or video--the living room's the place for that.
I just wanted a hardcover class color reader and I really wanted to go with Nook because of the sdcard.
In the end the lockdown settled the issue.
Amazon plays some petty games with their app store but it took me less than 5 minutes to not only get Nook up and running on the Fire, but also the competing 1mobile app store. No hacks, no sideloading; the Silk browser let me d/l and install 1mobile just fine.
Whatever their expectations for the tablet, at least Amazon lets me do whatever I want right out of the box.
I am also in this group.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by jersysman View Post
I bought a Nook Color when it first came out. It was a ebook reader that easily became a full fledged tablet (with a little tinkering) at a very decent price. But B&N did nothing to push ahead with this product that was the talk of the town. Instead they sat on their laurels and let the competition just roar on by. It just took them so long to do anything. By the time they came out with an upgraded product, the Fire was already out and the Nexus was on the horizon. By then it was just too late for B&N.

I feel that they missed a golden opportunity to establish themselves as a big player in the 7" tablet market.
They replaced the Color with the Tablet a year later and it was arguably as good as or better than the original Fire. Same with the existing ones. I wouldn't call that resting on their laurels. That's faster than a lot of Apple updates and pretty impressive for a company with no previous experience in electronics.

I think a lot of people had unrealistic expectations. Their biggest mistake IMO was not the hardware but the limited ecosystem. But even then, most Android OEMs (well actually all except Samsung) are struggling to make any money right now so the decision to try to control the ecosystem rather than just opening it up is understandable.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:15 AM   #24
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Sears, Kmart, Best Buy are still around.

Circuit City and CompUSA over-expanded, a common problem for electronics chains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pl001 View Post
B&N should have been trying to compete directly with Amazon online right from Amazon's inception.
Not necessarily.

E-commerce barely existed in 1994, when Amazon first got started. The Internet was still in the dial-up era, nothing like today's ubiquity and routine nature.

First-mover advantage is more a myth than a reality; consider how many "dot coms" of that era imploded -- and how Amazon would have been among the victims, if Bezos wasn't a shrewd borrower. Anybody remember this guy?



Sony, by the way, had an ebook reader long before Amazon or B&N, and they're now roadkill in the US market.

Plus, B&N did get into ebooks fairly quickly, and have a reasonable market share. The problem is that the Nook business isn't profitable, and it looks like that won't be fixed any time soon.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:25 AM   #25
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Not necessarily.

E-commerce barely existed in 1994, when Amazon first got started. The Internet was still in the dial-up era, nothing like today's ubiquity and routine nature.

First-mover advantage is more a myth than a reality; consider how many "dot coms" of that era imploded -- and how Amazon would have been among the victims, if Bezos wasn't a shrewd borrower. Anybody remember this guy?
I did mention all the failures in that same post.

But Amazon got their start selling books and selection was limited. B&N could have used their existing clout and supply chain to offer a better selection and better prices. Whether or not they could have executed that plan as well as Amazon is pure speculation and in reality quite doubtful as they had an interest to protect their B&M profits. However I will maintain the opportunity was there.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:57 AM   #26
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However I will maintain the opportunity was there.
Hard to argue against that.
20 years ago there was no Amazon.
The opportunity was there for the taking by anybody who realized that the internet could do for mail order retail what the railroad did for Sears Roebuck in the 19th Century.

What Bezos did could have been done by any *competent* operator willing to take internet retailing seriously.

Now, competence in management is a fairly high bar but not an unreasonable expectation for a national retailing chain so the real advantage Amazon had over its roadkill and also-ran brethren was that Bezos takes the internet seriously. He did so in 1995 and he still does today.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:02 PM   #27
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But from what I have read, the Nook HD does the same things as the Kindle Fire. The difference is that the KF offers more apps and videos. I raise this because I find it odd that people want more "freedom" with fromthe Nook Tablets than they do from the KF.
As a reader the Nook HD is arguably better due to its higher density, making text more readable.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:08 PM   #28
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I wouldn't call that resting on their laurels. That's faster than a lot of Apple updates and pretty impressive for a company with no previous experience in electronics.
Agreed. Many forget that when the original nook came out, B&N was new to eReaders, and within a year they had a tablet out, which at the time was a benchmark for the price/performance it offered; it forced Amazon to change gears and start looking at LCD tablets and not just eInk. They did well with the follow ups, but they never had the engineering power of big companies to make a big dent in the market.
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:46 PM   #29
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The quality of their hardware's not the problem.

Their eco-system is. Their customer service often is.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:19 PM   #30
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Two reports from Yahoo:
http://news.yahoo.com/nook-death-spi...164031668.html

Quote:
The contrast between star-crossed Nook and Amazon’s (AMZN) Kindle could not be greater. The Nook is tightly tied to North America while Amazon is just coming off a triumphant expansion period in Europe. Several UK retail chains including Carphone Warehouse and Argo recently reported surprisingly strong Christmas sales, and they actually cited Kindle as a key driver. Amazon does not break down Kindle sales volume, but its eBook sales growth during the Christmas 2012 was torrid.

The depressing thing about the Nook’s double-digit revenue decline is that it includes both hardware and eBooks. Even assuming a steep Nook device sales decline during the Christmas period, you would think that the cumulative eBook and tablet user base over the past year would have resulted in increased year-on-year content sales that would soften the revenue erosion.

The international momentum Amazon has gained over the past six months is only going to tighten the screws on Barnes & Noble in 2013. It is hard to see how the Nook’s revenue decline is going to be reversed in 2013. And it’s very hard to see why any new consumer who researches his or her purchase for even five minutes would now take the betamax risk of buying a Nook.
http://news.yahoo.com/amazon-shares-...--finance.html

Quote:
The e-book market is a lot bigger than previously thought, and owners of Kindle e-readers and tablets are reading more e-books, Morgan Stanley's Scott Devitt, a leading Internet and e-commerce analyst, told investors in the research note.

Devitt estimated worldwide e-book unit sales of 859 million in 2012, up considerably from a previous estimate of 567 million. With almost 45 percent of the e-book market, Amazon likely sold 383 million e-books last year, compared with an earlier estimate of 252 million, the analyst added.
And, as a capper, a (dubious?) breakdown of Kindle economics from Morgan stanley:
http://www.businessinsider.com/chart...-kindle-2013-2



Quote:
Amazon reveals almost nothing about its sales or profits, so we have to rely on the estimates of analysts. Scott Devitt at Morgan Stanley did his best to break it down, and he believes the Kindle business is highly profitable for Amazon.

He believes 34 percent of Amazon's consolidated segment operating income is coming from the Kindle. In this chart, we break down where the money comes from. While Amazon loses money on each piece of hardware it sells, it makes money from advertising and digital media.

Amazon's annual Kindle profit was $565 million last year, according to Devitt, so we're not talking about an Apple-esque performance. He sees it jumping to $620 million this year.
I fear something really bad is coming...
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