DHS Watchdog OKs ‘Suspicionless’ Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by cghipp

I was going to say, the "zone" on this map is lot more than 100 miles. I used to live in Columbia, SC, and it's about 150 miles due east to North Myrtle Beach.

The US East Coast does not run due north-south. Charleston ,SC, is on the coast and it is much closer to Columbia than Myrtle Beach.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by cghipp

I was going to say, the "zone" on this map is lot more than 100 miles. I used to live in Columbia, SC, and it's about 150 miles due east to North Myrtle Beach.

Where do they start counting the 100 miles from, a line in the sand?

[derangedhermit]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Where do they start counting the 100 miles from, a line in the sand?

Where land and sea (or Great Lake) meet, or from the land border. They take all the points along that line and draw arcs across US territory, and everything that falls inside the joined lines of the arcs is "within 100 miles". That's why there's a bump above Mobile, AL, for example, since they draw the arc up 100 miles from the northern end of Mobile Bay.

Basically, if you start from anywhere on US soil, and can get to any point on a land border or to the edge of a large body of water (Atlantic, Pacific, Gulf of Mexico, Great Lakes) by moving 100 miles in any direction, then you are within the area of operation.

They use the land border instead of the actual international border with the Great Lakes because of the operational difficulties of covering the open water of the lakes. They want 100 miles they can reach by vehicle, not boat. That's not to say they do not operate on those waters, they do - especially, for example, along the St Lawrence Seaway / River where the border runs along it, since there is a lot of illegal activity they are concerned about there, and in that terrain there is a very short time to find someone before they disappear.

They used to use drones on the Mexican border that were borrowed from the military, but DHS kept crashing them, so the military was becoming reluctant to keep letting them use them. I don't know how many are still in use today.

The justification for the whole thing is that they can be more effective with an "in-depth" defense using the resources available rather than lining everyone up right on the line. And there are secondary issues like small aircraft that land at airfields not far inland, but they would get complaints if they just shot them down right at the beach. And that there are about 20 million people who are already here illegally, and they might catch a few that they wouldn't otherwise. The last, though, is becoming a big no-no, for political reasons neither party can ignore.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by CallOfCth'reader

That confused me for a while, because I couldn't work out why large format print media would be illegal.

Actually, large magazines can be quite dangerous, if you know how to use them. They are more effective than guns, because you can calibrate the level of damage you cause, depending on how tightly you roll the magazine, and on whether you use a stabbing motion or a whipping motion on the victim. They are particularly effective against intellectuals, whose reaction time is slowed when they try to read the magazine whilst being assaulted.

Graphic novels can also be quite dangerous, since they often have hard covers, with brutally damaging edges when used correctly.

The immense suffering caused by paper cuts on a daily basis is a matter of universal concern in educational institutions, to the point where many schools have resorted to graduating functional illiterates rather than have their students risk injury while learning to read.

And of course, here at Mobileread we are all aware of the immense danger to aircraft caused by ebook reading devices.

So it turns out that as the pen is mightier than the sword, the magazine is mightier than the gun.

[Freeshadow]

Especially if it's a drawing ink pen with a flat tip.
Could be used like a dart

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Actually, large magazines can be quite dangerous, if you know how to use them. They are more effective than guns, because you can calibrate the level of damage you cause, depending on how tightly you roll the magazine, and on whether you use a stabbing motion or a whipping motion on the victim. They are particularly effective against intellectuals, whose reaction time is slowed when they try to read the magazine whilst being assaulted.

Graphic novels can also be quite dangerous, since they often have hard covers, with brutally damaging edges when used correctly.

The immense suffering caused by paper cuts on a daily basis is a matter of universal concern in educational institutions, to the point where many schools have resorted to graduating functional illiterates rather than have their students risk injury while learning to read.

And of course, here at Mobileread we are all aware of the immense danger to aircraft caused by ebook reading devices.

So it turns out that as the pen is mightier than the sword, the magazine is mightier than the gun.

Also think of the horror and fear that dogs and small children suffer when just the threat of being swatted on the nose is made. For loudmouths the threat of having a hard rolled magazines stuffed down into their mouths suffices.

It is little reported and deliberately so, but the Airlines are very leery of maverick readers using eReaders like Frisbees and sailing them into the intakes of jet engines. Almost as dangerous as a 5 or 10 pound Canadian Goose in the intake.

[Harmon]

Well, here's something new:

9th Circuit Appeals Court: 4th Amendment Applies At The Border; Also: Password Protected Files Shouldn't Arouse Suspicion

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...uspicion.shtml

But it's the 9th Circuit, generally regarded as kind of flakey on Constitutional issues...

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Harmon

But it's the 9th Circuit, generally regarded as kind of flakey on Constitutional issues...

I find that a fascinating statement.
Please feel free to expand on it.
Is that an actual reputation within judicial circles?

[teh603]

Originally Posted by SeaKing

It is little reported and deliberately so, but the Airlines are very leery of maverick readers using eReaders like Frisbees and sailing them into the intakes of jet engines. Almost as dangerous as a 5 or 10 pound Canadian Goose in the intake.

Y'know they could probably redesign the engines to take less damage? There's a story about an A-10 pilot who sucked up a couple of geese, and when he landed the ground crew had him leave the engines on so they could throw a bucketful of walnut hulls in to clean out the remaining debris.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I find that a fascinating statement.
Please feel free to expand on it.
Is that an actual reputation within judicial circles?

Sort of. For a while they were the circuit most reversed by the supreme court; at one point (in the 90's) something like 29 of the 30 cases they had before the Sct. were reversed. More recently, the 6th circuit has become the most reversed court.

The 9th circuit is by far the largest federal appellate circuit (it includes California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Alaska...and a few other western states), and decides something like 6,000 cases per year.

[ebusinesstutor]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

You guys live in a tiny country. 11 of our states have a greater area than GB and the UK, and 31 states are larger than England.

And Canada is even larger than the US - though a lot less populated.

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

And Canada is even larger than the US - though a lot less populated.

I repeat; size isn't everything

[ebusinesstutor]

As a Canadian who regularly travels to the US, the seizure of electronic devices is of definite concern to me.

I work from my laptop, but would never take it on a US trip. We have a basic netbook with minimal info on it that we would take.

I would like to take my Galaxy Note smart phone for maps, calling, email, research, etc. but am nervous that it could be confiscated if some border agent is having bad day. Not worried about the ebook reader as they are inexpensive and easily replaced.

I understand seizing them when there is reasonable suspicion makes sense. But "suspicionless" seizing sounds like fishing expeditions and an abuse of power.

It is hard to attract tourists when there is this kind of draconian rules in place.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

It is hard to attract tourists when there is this kind of draconian rules in place.

I gave up flying after 9/11 because of the US's knee-jerk restrictions. Since then, my vacations have been limited to car trips in western Washington and Oregon. Trips to British Columbia have also been cut out because of 9/11.

[SeaKing]

Originally Posted by teh603

Y'know they could probably redesign the engines to take less damage? There's a story about an A-10 pilot who sucked up a couple of geese, and when he landed the ground crew had him leave the engines on so they could throw a bucketful of walnut hulls in to clean out the remaining debris.

Yep, but the way the story went, the geese were nicely baked and the walnut hulls were actually whole walnuts for flavoring and then they probably had some helio pilot buzz up a few thousand feet with a dozen cases of beer on his rails to ice them down and they had a picnic.

Also that might have been that lady Warthog pilot who could fly without hydraulics. I am sure she could cook as well if she could do that.