Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion)

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-2008, 05:53 PM   #1
snookums
Connoisseur
snookums doesn't littersnookums doesn't litter
 
Posts: 81
Karma: 100
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Kindle
Question about copyright?

Cornell has a lot of historical documents online such as the Constitution of the Confederate States. They also have the first couple issues of Scribner's Magazine as scanned images available online. I'd like to put these into e-format to sell, but they state on their webpage that these materials are made available only for non-commercial purposes. How can they do that? As far as I understand copyright, anything before 1923 is in the public domain. Do they really have any legal standing to say that I can't use the copies of Scribner's or any of the other historical documents in a commercial manner. I could buy copies off of eBay and scan them myself. It would be harder to find a source for the treaties and documents, but I could. So how could they tell the difference, and how could anyone claim copyright on treaties and documents of the U.S. unless they were translated or added to in some way.
snookums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 06:43 PM   #2
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,605
Karma: 3586209
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
I don't think they are claiming copyright; they can't. Depending on how it is phrased, they might have some kind of license agreement. I don't know until I see it. Can you provide a link?
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 02-13-2008, 06:46 PM   #3
MaggieScratch
Has got to the black veil
MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.MaggieScratch knows the square root of minus one.
 
MaggieScratch's Avatar
 
Posts: 537
Karma: 7960
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Device: Nook Color, Nook Simple Touch
They are PDFs, right? They own the copyright of the PDFs of those publications, because they made the PDFs. Just like a Penguin edition of a public domain novel is copyrighted for that edition. Microfilm/microfiche works the same way. Same with images of old paintings in museums--the painting itself is in the public domain, but the copyright of photographs of the paintings belongs to the photographer.

So you can go ahead and make copies of the same magazines that you bought off eBay and sell them, yes. YOU would own copyright of THOSE editions.

Last edited by MaggieScratch; 02-13-2008 at 06:50 PM.
MaggieScratch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 06:56 PM   #4
snookums
Connoisseur
snookums doesn't littersnookums doesn't litter
 
Posts: 81
Karma: 100
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Kindle
I was actually thinking of two different places. Yale's Avalon Project collects historical documents like The Confederate Constitution. The first 19 volumes of Scribner's is over at Cornell. Either way, I don't see how they can claim any say over what I can do with the text. I'm sure the images that Cornell has are their own, but the text should be in the public domain.
snookums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 07:11 PM   #5
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,605
Karma: 3586209
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
The scanned images of Scribner's are probably in copyright. The contents of the scanned images are not.

The text at the Avalon Project is not in copyright. So long as you are careful to remove their notes and introductions, you're fine.

P.S. Thanks for pointing out the Avalon Project. I didn't know about it.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 07:35 PM   #6
snookums
Connoisseur
snookums doesn't littersnookums doesn't litter
 
Posts: 81
Karma: 100
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Kindle
Thanks. That's what I thought, but I wanted a second opinion. The Avalon project even lists the source book that they got the Confederate Constitution from. It's in the public domain. I just wanted to be certain that I wasn't getting myself in trouble.
snookums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2008, 10:19 PM   #7
RWood
Technogeezer
RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.RWood ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
RWood's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,233
Karma: 1601464
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Device: Sony PRS-500
When I was assembling the Harvard Classics series I found many sites with some of the materials that were not available at Project Gutenberg. Many of them were copyright in their presentation even though the base material was long out of copyright.

For some of the pieces I used PDF images from the Internet Archive and processed those through an OCR program. After cleaning up the resultant files they were incorporated into the final volumes.

My view on the issue, go for it.
RWood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 03:55 AM   #8
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,473
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
I have to confess that I am a little uneasy about the idea of using public domain documents for commercial gain. Why not create an e-book and share it with everyone freely, as many of us have done for you?
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 07:02 AM   #9
ericshliao
Guru
ericshliao will become famous soon enoughericshliao will become famous soon enoughericshliao will become famous soon enoughericshliao will become famous soon enoughericshliao will become famous soon enoughericshliao will become famous soon enough
 
Posts: 974
Karma: 687
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: Dell X51v; iLiad v2
The main stream of global copyright protects both content and compilation. Even when the content too old that is beyond protection, its compilation may still within protection.
That is, one can't just take other's compilation without agreement, enen when the content in that compilation is not within protection. Unless one makes some effort to extract content from the compilation and make his own compilation.
So, if one can extract content from pre-scanned image to text or pdf, the commercial limitation will not be applied.
ericshliao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 11:56 AM   #10
snookums
Connoisseur
snookums doesn't littersnookums doesn't litter
 
Posts: 81
Karma: 100
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I have to confess that I am a little uneasy about the idea of using public domain documents for commercial gain. Why not create an e-book and share it with everyone freely, as many of us have done for you?
Probably both. But for those who don't come to places like mobileread, I'll probably upload a copy to the kindle service as well.
snookums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 01:00 PM   #11
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,473
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Thank you - that's good to hear.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 01:31 PM   #12
VillageReader
Evangelist
VillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with othersVillageReader plays well with others
 
VillageReader's Avatar
 
Posts: 430
Karma: 2718
Join Date: May 2006
Device: Iliad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I have to confess that I am a little uneasy about the idea of using public domain documents for commercial gain. Why not create an e-book and share it with everyone freely, as many of us have done for you?
Many of the books here or Gutenberg or Feedbooks (and Manybooks and...) are also available, sometimes with better formating, for a price at Fictionwise and other places. Sometimes people are just willing to pay for ease of use when they could get the same thing, or something very similar, at no charge.

No particular reason to be uneasy about it, IMO.
VillageReader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 01:46 PM   #13
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,473
Karma: 43935573
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageReader View Post
Many of the books here or Gutenberg or Feedbooks (and Manybooks and...) are also available, sometimes with better formating, for a price at Fictionwise and other places. Sometimes people are just willing to pay for ease of use when they could get the same thing, or something very similar, at no charge.
I entirely agree that, if significant work is done is tidying up formatting, or putting together a compilation of difficult-to-find material, then that can certainly be worth paying for. What I have "issues" with are the people who just reproduce PG material, completely "unimproved", and charge for that. I know there's nothing illegal about it, but to profit from something that you've been given free of charge is, I feel, a little questionable morally. It's just a personal opinion - I know that others will probably disagree, and I've no problem with that.
HarryT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2008, 03:45 PM   #14
snookums
Connoisseur
snookums doesn't littersnookums doesn't litter
 
Posts: 81
Karma: 100
Join Date: Jan 2008
Device: Kindle
HarryT: I agree with you about people who are making money off of others effort. I personally think that it is a little bit weasely to just toss something off of gutenberg onto the Kindle service. There are already a dozen different versions of a lot of the classics there. I'm sure the first guy was doing everyone a favor, but all the copycats who aren't adding anything are getting on my nerves. What I've been considering is buying old magazines off of ebay and scanning and OCRing each edition, maybe even keep some of the illustrations. I see this as preserving history. Did you know that Cosmo used to be a literary magazine before it became the tacky mag that it is today?

I'd also like to make some public documents like the ones at Avalon Project more easily available to the public. That book that they cite as the source for the Confederate Constitution looks like it would be a treasure tomb. It's in the public domain and both volumes are available on Amazon for $60. I could start there. I'll definitely bring everything public domain here so you guys can imbibe, but I don't see the harm in making a few bucks by putting the stuff on some online stores as well. As VillageReader says, lots of people will pay for convenience, and they probably wouldn't know where to look otherwise.
snookums is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A copyright question ficbot News 14 11-20-2009 08:48 AM
Interesting copyright question ficbot News 77 10-04-2009 07:29 AM
Copyright question Seabound Upload Help 9 01-23-2009 03:33 AM
Copyright Acknowledgement Question Patricia Upload Help 8 10-03-2008 06:20 PM
CopyRight Question =X= Upload Help 45 05-01-2008 01:47 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.