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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #16
AnemicOak
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Originally Posted by taustin View Post
The reason there are no other decent miniatures games is that GW has run everybody else out of business. It wouldn't be so bad if their miniatures didn't look so silly.
Last I heard Warmachine (Privateer Press) was doing quite well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #17
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The reason there are no other decent miniatures games is that GW has run everybody else out of business. It wouldn't be so bad if their miniatures didn't look so silly.
That makes for a god theory but bit think the truth is the market cap for this industry isn't huge and most of the guys that create a great system usually aren't the best businessmen. So far the demise of every good system that has had a good chance to threaten GW has collapsed from the inside.



I still lament at the demise of Chronopia one of my favorite game systems. GW however did not hesitate to pick up their leading artist and sculpture.


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I would be surprised if that is the case. Their share price is high, sales are high, they have several nice IPs that ain't going anywhere soon.
Share holder remember the "Rings" era when they had tons of cash since the series ended they have never recovered.




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Privateer Press is doing well. WotC's miniatures games have also done fairly well, even when you consider their horrible distribution model and low-quality casts.
They have Mike McVey which has gotten them a good following, another system that has been gaining is Dark Ages.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #18
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I find this interesting

I try to remember where first saw "space marine"

author Poul Anderson maybe

come to me later
Poul Anderson's singular character was Ensign Flandry, Captain Flandry, and later even Sir Flandry of the Terran Space Navy and he wrote many books about Flandry's exploits to save the "rotting, corrupt -except for him) Terran (earth) empire. He was great.

On some of his endeavors, he was aided by stalwart, giant hulking "Space Marines" of other species, in armored space suits that used great crowbars to wreck the opposing nasty forces own armored space suits..

My brother in law who retired from the Navy as a Captain and I, a ground pounder, as young men, both loved those interstellar swashbuckling tales.

Of course the new "Space Marines" are far more advanced and far more silly than Poul Anderson's were. It appears that the company that owns them is also silly. Kind of like Apple and MS, trying to trademark, patent, copyright old expressions.

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Old 02-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #19
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Not to say I'll be happy if GW collapses; far the contrary. The only remaining miniatures games have no narrative aspect and feel too much like I'm playing a video game on the tabletop.
Back in the old days we used our imaginations to give games narrative, rather than have it force fed us. I stopped playing Warhammer when things started to get rigid, and imagination was discouraged so as to sell expensive character figures (around 3rd edition). And the sculpting on those character figures was often awfully over the top.

The Lord of the Rings miniatures are a lot better, with focus on looking 'realistic', but that is because they were constrained by the license limits.

Other companies have hooked into including powerful character figures in their games, because it's a nice cash cow.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CallOfCth'reader View Post
Back in the old days we used our imaginations to give games narrative, rather than have it force fed us. I stopped playing Warhammer when things started to get rigid, and imagination was discouraged so as to sell expensive character figures (around 3rd edition). And the sculpting on those character figures was often awfully over the top.
Sounds more like 4th. Special characters were very rarely used in 3rd Edition, except for being sawed apart to build other characters.

Then again GW shot itself in the foot with 4th and later editions because they nerfed their most expensive kits- transport vehicles- to the ground.

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Other companies have hooked into including powerful character figures in their games, because it's a nice cash cow.
So it seems. Narrative and roleplaying always seem to play second fiddle to greed.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #21
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What I also find interesting in this story is how quick Amazon enforced the TM claim but did not apply the same vigor to themselves when their battle with Apple was going on (App store)
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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Then again GW shot itself in the foot with 4th and later editions because they nerfed their most expensive kits- transport vehicles- to the ground.
GW tend to do that with each rules update, and then bring out new (and expensive) goodies to spend cash on. It has worked for them so far, but I wonder how many customers they lost along along the way.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #23
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Privateer Press is doing well. WotC's miniatures games have also done fairly well, even when you consider their horrible distribution model and low-quality casts.
Neither is a serious competitor to Warhammer, though. Does WotC even have mass army mini rules?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:37 PM   #24
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Last I heard Warmachine (Privateer Press) was doing quite well.
What percentage of the market do they have? Is it more than one digit?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:40 PM   #25
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GW tend to do that with each rules update, and then bring out new (and expensive) goodies to spend cash on. It has worked for them so far, but I wonder how many customers they lost along along the way.
Their business model does not aim to keep customers. They depend on churn - new customers constantly appearing. Most of their customers are kids, who play for a few years, then discover girls, and move on. By coming out with ever better units, to play competitively, you have to have the latest, so you can't use your big brother's stuff, that he isn't interested in any more. It's a brilliant, if somewhat amoral, model.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:50 PM   #26
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Their business model does not aim to keep customers. They depend on churn - new customers constantly appearing. Most of their customers are kids, who play for a few years, then discover girls, and move on. By coming out with ever better units, to play competitively, you have to have the latest, so you can't use your big brother's stuff, that he isn't interested in any more. It's a brilliant, if somewhat amoral, model.
Its a pretty standard model in the gaming business. WotC does the same thing with Magic, and D&D has had it since late in 1e when they made the Forgotten Realms an official setting. Hell, just running the module bundled with Dark Sun made a good chunk of the setting book obselete. I was *so* glad when WotC reset and froze that metaplot, but I guess its because you can't keep publishing a game setting based on Mellikot-Scale Bikinis in the modern age of feminist gamers.

Course Dark Sun was always frighteningly equal-opportunity about putting people in battle thongs... *involuntary shudder*
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:24 PM   #27
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Its a pretty standard model in the gaming business.
Yeah, and it's always been that way. Since most of the money is in rule books, not accessories, that's realy the only way it can be. Some companies do it better than most. WotC and GW are among the best.

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WotC does the same thing with Magic, and D&D has had it since late in 1e when they made the Forgotten Realms an official setting. Hell, just running the module bundled with Dark Sun made a good chunk of the setting book obselete. I was *so* glad when WotC reset and froze that metaplot, but I guess its because you can't keep publishing a game setting based on Mellikot-Scale Bikinis in the modern age of feminist gamers.

Course Dark Sun was always frighteningly equal-opportunity about putting people in battle thongs... *involuntary shudder*
They know their market, which is to say, sexually frustrated teenage boys. If they did less of that crap, more girls would play. If more girls played, they'd do less of that.

On the other hand, that's not unique to games, as some has noted:

http://litstack.com/sf-funny-cover/
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:51 AM   #28
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What bugs me the most about this, is that it is a trademark claim, yet they used a DMCA takedown. DMCA is strictly for copyright, and using a DMCA takedown request for something other than copyright violations is considered misrepresentation. Problem is, because of the poor wording of the DMCA, it is extremely difficult to have anything done. You essentially have to prove that it was done knowingly and with malicious intent.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:32 AM   #29
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Well, well; this is currently a featured article at the BBC News Technology page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003

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Old 02-08-2013, 08:42 AM   #30
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Also, the Kindle edition of "Spots" appears to be back:

http://www.amazon.com/Spots-Space-Ma...r_pr_orig_subj

Can someone in the US confirm whether it's available to purchase? (In the UK I can't see a 'Buy' button for any book on amazon.com.)

Graham

Last edited by Graham; 02-08-2013 at 01:22 PM. Reason: fixed closing parenthesis.
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