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Old 03-14-2013, 06:40 AM   #196
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My battery is still only at 63%. So even when sleeping on a page of a book, it still seems to have stopped draining as fast as it was before I installed 2.4.0.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:08 AM   #197
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My battery is still only at 63%. So even when sleeping on a page of a book, it still seems to have stopped draining as fast as it was before I installed 2.4.0.
Nice! What was the method you used to install 2.4.0?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #198
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Nice! What was the method you used to install 2.4.0?
Via the Kobo desktop app, a couple of weeks after the desktop app updated itself. I plugged it in and let it do it's thing, and had no issues.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:36 PM   #199
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Hm thanks. I did that as well... but still with problems. Oh well, apparently not a fix for all of us!
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #200
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Then it would not be able to enter sleep mode. The processor cannot be in a loop during sleep mode (nor turned off for that matter).
Hah. Maybe it isn't entering sleep mode...?
Closer to my thinking especially with regard to failing to go from sleep mode into power-off as per my original fault.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:45 PM   #201
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Joined the forums just to see if I can help; battery stuff is not my job field but I know more then most on the subject as I have done a lot of research into the subject.

I plan on getting a Kobo Glo tomorrow around 10pm EST and am worried about this issue which is why I am driving 1.5 hours to some hole in the wall bookstore. I wish Kobo would get its .... together and sell these in retail stores here in the USA, but after four months of "coming soon" on the Best Buy site, and a call to Kobo tech support where they told me not to hold my breath, I am no longer waiting.

The reason I want to see the unit in person is because (and this is important for those of you having battery issues) if the battery has sat dead for too long, it WILL cause battery issues. I have the same problem on my Libre Pro, which came new in box with a dead battery that must have sat on the shelf for a few months in that condition. Depending on how long it sits dead, the voltage of the Lithium Ion battery can drop below the built in safety kill switch which is designed to prevent battery's from exploding due to over charge.

When the battery shows "dead" it's not really "dead" it's just under the voltage which the manufacture specified as the cutoff. If the battery ever truly became completely drained it would never charge again die to safety features built into the charging circuit. In fact, it doesn't even need to be completely discharged before it will refuse to charge, it just has to reach that kill switch threshold.

Now comes the grey area. If the battery sits dead long enough to drop below the minimum voltage, but not to the point it reaches the kill switch threshold, it starts doing several bad things to the battery. First, LI batteries have a finite number of charges, again to help try and prevent explosion. Every time you plug in the device where it starts to charge, it will take all or part of one of these finite charges. For example, if the battery has 500 charges (pretty standard) charging the device may take 1 full charge, 1/2 charge, etc. It's based off of the battery specs, mAh, battery quality, and current state of charge. For example, if the battery is completely dead, you will use a full charge. If its 25%-70% you will usually use 1/2 of a charge and at 90% or above it will trickle charge the battery only talking 1/5 a charge off your max.

Lastly, LI batteries are meant to be stored at 60% charge if they will not be used in a while. Keeping them fully charged in storage will eventually degrade the battery and take off of those max charges, even if the battery has never been charged.

I am dumbing this down for readability, and there are a lot of variables, but the point is that depending on the state the battery was left in by Kobo, how long it sat in the store or warehouse, the temp of that storage unit, etc, you can get a new device with a battery that does not hold a charge.



To/dr: what state was your battery in when you got the unit? How long did it take to charge that first time if you did not look before charging it up, and how long does it take now to charge from nearly dead?

Completely depleting the battery and recharging it can help condition the battery but its also BAD to do often. I would do it no more then once a month if you want to keep your batteries in the best possible condition. There is a lot more advice I could give on how to preserve a battery but that's not really the point of this already too long post.

For those who are looking for more info on how to keep your batteries in good working shape, Google Battery University; its the first (dot) (com) link in a google search.

Hope this helps and I am looking forward to some info from those of you having issues. Again, was the units battery dead on arrival? If so, you have your answer.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #202
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I'm 20 full days in since charging, 37 hours of reading on lowest lighting level, and at 40%...

As for expectations of linearity that are notoriously not so, it doesn't prevent me from hoping that someone might actually get it right. If they monitored current usage rather than voltage, as most devices do, the battery gauge could be quite accurate -once the actual capacity of the battery was determined. If that's not practical because of sleep cycles between page turns then perhaps it could be pretty accurately faked by monitoring what the processor is actually doing for how long and multiplying by predetermined average current draw based on what processes are active. Even that would probably be better than the commonest method of simply hanging an A/D off the raw battery voltage and interpolating between the highest monitored voltage and the lowest they are comfortable with to ensure charging is mandated before internal circuitry prevents further discharge of the battery.

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Old 03-15-2013, 05:03 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Thalinor View Post
Joined the forums just to see if I can help; battery stuff is not my job field but I know more then most on the subject as I have done a lot of research into the subject.
[...]

Lastly, LI batteries are meant to be stored at 60% charge if they will not be used in a while. Keeping them fully charged in storage will eventually degrade the battery and take off of those max charges, even if the battery has never been charged.
[...]

To/dr: what state was your battery in when you got the unit? How long did it take to charge that first time if you did not look before charging it up, and how long does it take now to charge from nearly dead?
Hi Thalinor,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your elaborate explanation of battery specifics.

A depleted battery is not what caused our battery troubles. Both my first and second Glo had between 50 and 60% charge out of the box. Charging from "empty" takes about 2.5 to 3 hours, but I'm not completely sure as I always let it sit a bit longer.

However, the batteries aren't really the problem. They perform perfectly when we just use our devices. The problem lies somewhere in sleeping the devices or trying to sleep them. But we don't know exactly.

Mrs O
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:07 AM   #204
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I'm 20 full days in since charging, 37 hours of reading on lowest lighting level, and at 40%...
Niiice! Sounds a lot like my 'old' Touch

_____________

I've put an image of the internal µSD card from a properly working Glo on a separate µSD card and put that into my Glo. I wonder! I'll be testing again then (gah, sorry, book, I do want to read you, but... so much hassle).

Things that stayed the same: my sideloaded books, my database and my Kobo eReader.conf file


Starup and setup from clean new image was EXTREMELY SNAPPY, really impressively fast! I don't see that any more now. Whether that's since after it synced 5 of my kepubs (why 5? how does it decide which 5?) or since after I removed them again with Kobo desktop app or since copying over my backed up database + books... no idea. It's not slow now, it's just not super snappy the way it started out. Sort of the same as my original internal µSD. What is definitely a lot slower is putting it to sleep... The screen empties itself of ink, stays blank for a few seconds (3? 4? seconds) and only then does it display the book cover... Exciting! Does this mean the device is actually putting itself to sleep?! Instead of like previously, just BAM giving me the cover and getting on with whatever it was doing? I wonder! Will take a few days before we can know for sure if anything changed.

VelvetElvis, how long does it take your (GF's) Glo to "go to sleep"? Davidfor?

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Old 03-15-2013, 06:38 AM   #205
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I've put an image of the internal µSD card from a properly working Glo on a separate µSD card and put that into my Glo.
No results yet, but, I did find some discrepancies in the factory firmware. My problem one has a newer build, and uhm, well, see for yourself.

Code:
                                              	Factory0.img	Mrs_O's
rootfs/usr/local/Kobo/revinfo                 	42598         	34b1ceb91d7dc8ff27c0a0f81b44ba7614204978
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz modified         	31 Aug 2012	15 Oct 2012
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz size               	116.4 MB	78.1 MB
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz/usr/local/Kobo/revinfo 42598         	43939
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:29 AM   #206
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Starup and setup from clean new image was EXTREMELY SNAPPY, really impressively fast! I don't see that any more now. Whether that's since after it synced 5 of my kepubs (why 5? how does it decide which 5?) or since after I removed them again with Kobo desktop app or since copying over my backed up database + books... no idea. It's not slow now, it's just not super snappy the way it started out. Sort of the same as my original internal µSD. What is definitely a lot slower is putting it to sleep... The screen empties itself of ink, stays blank for a few seconds (3? 4? seconds) and only then does it display the book cover... Exciting! Does this mean the device is actually putting itself to sleep?! Instead of like previously, just BAM giving me the cover and getting on with whatever it was doing? I wonder! Will take a few days before we can know for sure if anything changed.

VelvetElvis, how long does it take your (GF's) Glo to "go to sleep"? Davidfor?
That's pretty much what mine does when it goes to sleep. The blank screen for two or three seconds and then the cover and banner.

As to downloading five kepubs, I think that is so the home screen is full with only downloaded books. I haven't worked why it picks those five.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:00 AM   #207
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No results yet, but, I did find some discrepancies in the factory firmware. My problem one has a newer build, and uhm, well, see for yourself.

Code:
                                              	Factory0.img	Mrs_O's
rootfs/usr/local/Kobo/revinfo                 	42598         	34b1ceb91d7dc8ff27c0a0f81b44ba7614204978
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz modified         	31 Aug 2012	15 Oct 2012
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz size               	116.4 MB	78.1 MB
recoveryfs/upgrade/fs.tgz/usr/local/Kobo/revinfo 42598         	43939
That all makes sense. The image I sent you, which I got from someone here has 2.1.2 as the factory firmware. That is build r42598. The image was probably taken immediately after doing a factory reset. Or it was taken before the device was first turned on. Because of that, the rootfs partition will have the same firmware levels as the recoveryfs partition.

Your Glo came with build r43939 on the recovery partition. From my notes for the betas, this is probably 2.1.4, but it might be 2.1.3. On the rootfs, you have firmware 2.4.0 which has the new style build number. The device information displays the first 10 characters of this.

The sizes for both files match with what I have for the beta versions. A quick check and the main difference seems to be the dictionaries. These were included in 2.1.2, but not in 2.1.4. From 2.1.4, they are were downloaded separately.

I will be very interested in your test results. I know I mentioned it to you, but I don't think I said it in the forums. Or if I did, I can't find the post. I am wondering if the firmware upgrades have not replaced a file. And the factory firmware you had has a bug that the earlier versions didn't. If your Glo has good sleep battery life with this image, then that will support this theory.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #208
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I am wondering if the firmware upgrades have not replaced a file. And the factory firmware you had has a bug that the earlier versions didn't. If your Glo has good sleep battery life with this image, then that will support this theory.
Sounds promising
I really hope that is the culprit since it doesn't seem that difficult to solve. And well, you'll finally have answers.
Is this theory consistent with the remission of Lily7's Glo?
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:43 AM   #209
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That all makes sense. The image I sent you, which I got from someone here has 2.1.2 as the factory firmware. That is build r42598. The image was probably taken immediately after doing a factory reset. Or it was taken before the device was first turned on. Because of that, the rootfs partition will have the same firmware levels as the recoveryfs partition.

Your Glo came with build r43939 on the recovery partition. From my notes for the betas, this is probably 2.1.4, but it might be 2.1.3. On the rootfs, you have firmware 2.4.0 which has the new style build number. The device information displays the first 10 characters of this.

The sizes for both files match with what I have for the beta versions. A quick check and the main difference seems to be the dictionaries. These were included in 2.1.2, but not in 2.1.4. From 2.1.4, they are were downloaded separately.

I will be very interested in your test results. I know I mentioned it to you, but I don't think I said it in the forums. Or if I did, I can't find the post. I am wondering if the firmware upgrades have not replaced a file. And the factory firmware you had has a bug that the earlier versions didn't. If your Glo has good sleep battery life with this image, then that will support this theory.
Thanks for the elaborate explanation! I like knowing how it works and what is what

Indeed you mentioned it in the PMs. But I think someone suggested it in this thread earlier, albeit slightly differently, which is why I wanted to try someone else's image in the first place I'll keep you posted on the results, but don't expect any until after the weekend.


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Sounds promising
I really hope that is the culprit since it doesn't seem that difficult to solve. And well, you'll finally have answers.
Is this theory consistent with the remission of Lily7's Glo?
Sounds promising indeed I'm hopeful. And frankly, if it's not this, I have no clue any more and nothing left to try and I might find a broken window some day soon and a cracked up Glo on the street outside. So. It better be this!
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:23 PM   #210
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Hi Thalinor,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your elaborate explanation of battery specifics.

A depleted battery is not what caused our battery troubles. Both my first and second Glo had between 50 and 60% charge out of the box. Charging from "empty" takes about 2.5 to 3 hours, but I'm not completely sure as I always let it sit a bit longer.

However, the batteries aren't really the problem. They perform perfectly when we just use our devices. The problem lies somewhere in sleeping the devices or trying to sleep them. But we don't know exactly.

Mrs O
Thank you for the info, its good to know they are not sitting at the store long enough to have a dead battery. I was about to make the long drive to the nearest independent book store to check out the unit when I ran across some forum posts about hidden google analytics and some sort of hidden apple portal which connects every time wifi is turned on. There is a way to block the google stuff but apparently if you block the apple portal via the host file it will not let you connect to wifi. I have a call into Kobo tech support which went to level II, who in a round about way verified they were Datamining, but were not sure what was collected. They transferred the ticket to level III and I am waiting for a call or email back.

I mentioned this battery issue as well as returning from sleep mode only to have your place in a chapter reset (documented in the 2.4 bugs thread on this forum), was told both issues had not been reported yet, and they said if I encountered them with my unit (which I don't own as of now) that I should reset the unit and it should fix any lost bookmark/page issues after returning from sleep.

If you notice that last sentence, you will probably be saying what I said to my self, "if they don't know about the problem, and its not been reported, then how does someone already have a canned statement ready as a fix for the issue?"

I will keep an eye on this thread and hold off getting a Glo until they figure out some of these bugs. My current Libre Pro may be outdated, but at least it does datamine, reflows PDF's perfectly almost every time, and instead of using metadata uses folders and file names for easy organization. I really wanted to upgrade to the Glo, but it sounds like there are just too many issues, including privacy concerns. I know B&N and Amazons units do the same thing, but I expected more form Kobo as the the anti-walled-garden company. Then again, I expected the same from Google and that turned out to be a joke.

Thanks for the info; I hope it gets sorted out.


Ps: One thing you might want to try. I used to work beta testing for Motorola Mobility before they were bought out by Google. I know exactly the evil kinds of things that are added to code for Datamining. You said you were not logged into Facebook or even on wifi, but that does not mean that the device OS is not waking up to try and transmit data. For those of you who are more technical and having this issue, try keeping the device connected to wifi and set up a network monitor to see how often the device wakes up from sleep to try and connect to outside servers.

When the iPhone 5 with Facebook integration came out there was a (fairly large random group of people) having huge battery drain issue. This issue was traced back by the "hacking" community to the device trying to connect to Facebook, even if the user was not logged into Facebook on the phone (through an app or the OS). I know the Kobo Glo has Facebook integration. I am not saying its the issue, but you might just find that the OS is waking up the device to try and transmit data mined information. This would also fit for side loaded books being more of a problem. Most of us know how quickly a cell phone battery drains if its constantly trying to connect to a network when you have poor reception. Trying to connect actually drains more battery then actually being connected.

Just a thought.

Last edited by Thalinor; 03-15-2013 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Fix typos
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