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Old 02-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #16
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I don't need evidence from Amazon itself. Draconian "always be online" DRM from game publishers, the movie streaming, and game streaming services tell me enough. If Amazon can (which is, as soon as there's 3G / wifi everywhere), they will set up a book streaming service.

They won't let a change to attain total control slip by. Not being able to get at your downloaded books in the Win8 application is just another way to get more control, and a first step in keeping the books from you.

And having seen people lose drm-ed or streamed stuff for which they paid good money (because the company goes broke, or just stops the service), I decided won't have any of it.

With regard to this stuff, I don't trust *anyone*.

I detest DRM, streaming, and clouds, and I do not trust anyone who employs these as I can never be sure that *my* product for which I paid is accessible in the future. If I cannot have a drm-free an uncontrolled file (possibly made so by myself) very soon after purchase, thereby cutting all ties with the seller, then I will not buy it.

And I'm anal about this. And paranoid. In the extreme. I'm long time fan of Baldur's Gate. I've had it almost since launch. First on CD. Now DRM-free (downloadable as a setup file) at Gog.com. I've been playing it for 15 years (and it's sequels too), and might add another 10 or 15 if I feel like it. I would like to play Beamdog's remake, but I won't, because they use DLC (downloadable content) and serverside DRM. I won't play it before it appears on Gog.com, complete with all DLC built into the game and no DRM. If it doesn't appear as such, I won't touch it. I burned myself once (Dragon Age, which has DLC and an activation procedure), and will never again.

The only products for which I accept it are Windows and Photoshop, because I'll eventually replace or upgrade them, and because there is no alternative to run Windows software reliably.

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #17
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My attitude towards these things is that there's enough real problems to worry about in the world, without making up imaginary new ones. I think it vanishingly unlikely that Amazon will switch to an "online only" reading model at any time in the foreseeable future.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:44 PM   #18
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Imaginary problems. You have apparently never lost a library of DRM-ed music worth thousands of euro's. One of my friends has, because the company who sold that music doesn't exist anymore. The player used to play these files will never work again as there is no DRM-server to contact. I warned him, but he too thought I was making a fuss out of it. He has nothing now. I still have a huge library in FLAC, ripped from my own CD's. More work, but (almost) safe, whatever happens.

Movie publishers, game publishers and even software makers are moving to an online only model. It's the main reason why I want to get out of IT as a job; today rather than tomorrow. Why shouldn't Amazon move to online only? Just because you don't think it's likely?

I don't agree, and you and I obviously think differently about this.

Think about it. DRM on your furniture! Having to call before you may sit down. Seller goes broke, and someone comes to your house to take your seats and TV away (streaming service) or seal them away (DRM encryption) so you can't use them. Sounds ridiculous? It's what essentialy is the case with software, music, books, and movies that depend on streaming or contain DRM. And I won't have any of it. If it can be avoided, I don't buy DRM-ed stuff, but sadly it's not always possible. In that case, I contend myself with being able to remove it immediately.

Should I start using cloud services, then it'll be on my own NAS. "Cloud" is just fancy, hip name of a place where a file is available online and can be synced between devices / computers. Nothing more. It has existed for two decades or even longer.

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Old 02-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #19
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I do remove DRM from my books. But I'm not going to worry about something that hadn't happened yet, and very likely never will. "Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof", as the KJV cogently expresses it.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Do you actually READ on K4PC? All I use it for is as a way of getting my books into Calibre, and I can do that from the Kindle itself. Very slightly less conveniently, perhaps, but no big deal.
No, I use it for Calibre as well. I have not managed to import my PW boks into Calibre through the "send via USB" from amazon option - but good point; I may have to figure out how to do it.

Last edited by xendula; 02-06-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:02 PM   #21
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Good point, yes. I use my iPad for that, but a Windows 8 tablet is definitely on the near horizon for me, and that would be something I'd use it for.
Harry, I must tell you that I found my Windows 8 tablet extremely disappointing. So many things about it are either badly designed or simply don't work. I've almost given it up, except for a very small number of things at which it excels (reading magazines like The Economist being one of them).

I was tossing up whether to get an iPad or a Windows 8 system. I veered away from the iPad because I dislike the whole Apple closed-shop environment. But I'm half-way to wishing I had gone that route after all.

Of course, the problem could be with the particular model I've got (an HP Envy). Maybe other incarnations are better. If you decide to get one yourself, I'd be really interested in hearing your views.

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Old 02-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #22
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No, I use it for Calibre as well. I have not managed to import my PW boks into Calibre through the "send via USB" from amazon option - but good point; I may have to figure out how to do it.
Just download them onto the Kindle itself, then connect USB and drag them from the "Documents" folder into Calibre (sort by date to find the new books). You could use "Transfer via USB" if you wish, but I find the method I've described to be easier, especially for multiple books.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:37 PM   #23
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@Harry: I will try that, thanks, though it sounds like a bit more of a hassle. The other method didn't work because Calibre could not get past the DRM.

@ Mike L: You had an Atom based hybrid, so could it be that the processing speeds ruined it for you?
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:28 AM   #24
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@ Mike L: You had an Atom based hybrid, so could it be that the processing speeds ruined it for you?
It's a hybrid that runs the "full" version of Windows 8, that is, with the traditional dekstop as well as the new tile-based interface.

Processing speed isn't the issue. Rather, so many aspects of the system either don't work well or don't work at all.

I think Windows 8 might well be a good system for smart phones and simple tablets, but it's really a bad choice for a keyboard-and-mouse environment.

Mike
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:52 AM   #25
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It's a hybrid that runs the "full" version of Windows 8, that is, with the traditional dekstop as well as the new tile-based interface.

Processing speed isn't the issue. Rather, so many aspects of the system either don't work well or don't work at all.

I think Windows 8 might well be a good system for smart phones and simple tablets, but it's really a bad choice for a keyboard-and-mouse environment.

Mike
So, would you say Win8 does not work for you, the concept of hybrids alltogether, or the specific hybrid you had?

I am asking because I dislike very many things about Win8 but do like the Ativ 700, and sometimes, when I get frustrated with mine, I have to remind myself that the OS is not Samsung's doing

I also wonder if 11 vs 10 inch screens make touch operation easier. I *just so* manage with the 11 inches I have, though, sadly, Chome (in desktop mode) hardly even responds to finger touch because of the small UI elements.

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:12 PM   #26
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So, would you say Win8 does not work for you, the concept of hybrids alltogether, or the specific hybrid you had?
It's a good question. To be honest, I'm not sure of the answer. That's because I have no previous experience of Windows 8 in general, or of hybrids, so I've got nothing to compare it with.

I do know that, with this particular system, things just don't work as expected, both in keyboard-and-mouse mode and when the tablet is detached. There also seem to be many features that are documented but are simply missing.

If I had some hours to spare, I could write a list of all the things that seem to be wrong with it. Instead, I'll just summarise it by saying that a touch-based interface, designed for doing "fun" things on a hand-held device (like sharing photos and listening to music), seems totally wrong for a serious business machine intended to run commercial applications.

This isn't because of any computer illiteracy on my part. I'm a life-long professional developer. I've used every version of Windows since 1.0. I've never had any serious difficulties with understanding the system or finding my way round the UI - until now.

Mike
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:54 PM   #27
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I am not thrilled with Amazon/B&N or any other "bookseller" who attempts to create roadblocks for my personal consumption of an entire book I purchased with my money. To me that translates into buying the book from the least restrictive source...

Authors/Publishers are going to have to face the same problem that music and movies have been facing for over a decade. I just hope that their "solution" isn't the same old DRM crap where I have to rely upon third party programs to strip out the restrictions I DID"T want. . .

As to the Windows 8 discussion . . . I find it responsive and have had no problems with my system since moving to it. I may not like all the programing changes but there are work-arounds for all of the issues I've encountered. I was thinking about a Surface Pro, but, based on reviews I think I'll wait until the Haswell chip.
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