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Old 06-13-2012, 01:36 PM   #1
wastelander
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Kindle doesn't have enough memory??

Hi, I've just loaded up a bunch of books onto my new K5T and opened up a PDF, after 1 or 2 pages it came up saying that the selected page could not be opened and that my kindle doesn't have enough memory?? Im a little confused, my normal books seem ok though, was is just that its pdf? Also im waiting for it to index about 90 items lol, how long should this take and does it index while sleeping?
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:27 PM   #2
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Hi, I've just loaded up a bunch of books onto my new K5T and opened up a PDF, after 1 or 2 pages it came up saying that the selected page could not be opened and that my kindle doesn't have enough memory?? Im a little confused, my normal books seem ok though, was is just that its pdf? Also im waiting for it to index about 90 items lol, how long should this take and does it index while sleeping?
If your book contains a bunch of PICTURES of pages, it can be quite large. What is the file size of the book that has "memory" problems?
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:34 PM   #3
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If it's a complex PDF page, it's entirely possible that the Kindle doesn't have enough memory to render the page. Memory - RAM - not file storage space.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:04 PM   #4
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If it's a complex PDF page, it's entirely possible that the Kindle doesn't have enough memory to render the page. Memory - RAM - not file storage space.
The file size determines whether it contains text or a lot of big nasty pictures of text, which can make "rendering" (loading and displaying an image of a page) slow or just not work...
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:00 PM   #5
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Thanks guys, the RAM makes sense - the files rang from 10MB-50MB lol

Thanks again!
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:18 PM   #6
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I had that happen to me a couple of times while trying to enlarge a PDF knitting pattern...no pics, only text, though I'm not sure of the file size just at the moment. A restart of the Kindle solved the problem entirely. Hasn't happened again with that or any other document. Just to note, prior to that, I'd been working extensively with my Kindle and multiple PDF's, adding to library, personal docs and more and it had been quite a long time (maybe a month) since I'd actually done a restart.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:20 PM   #7
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The free RAM does slowly decrease, eventually needed a restart to clean it up and start with a lot more free RAM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:21 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by geekmaster View Post
If your book contains a bunch of PICTURES of pages, it can be quite large. What is the file size of the book that has "memory" problems?
Don't confuse memory with storage. :P
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:09 AM   #9
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Don't confuse memory with storage. :P
Unless we have an English translation problem, computer "memory" and "storage" are EXACTLY the same thing. The two types of "memory storage" used in the kindles just happen to use different technology: one is faster, and the other is nonvolatile. The latest generations of flash memory are so fast that computers will only have one kind of memory storage in the future, with no artificial separation between fast memory and nonvolatile memory like we use now. They will just have a LOT of fast nonvolatile memory.

Background Information:
Spoiler:
Computers have been my hobby, my job, and my LIFE for half a century. I still have some core memory from one of my early computers. I recently ripped apart my last reel-to-reel computer tape drive (like in old Sci-Fi movies) to steal the servo motors for a CNC project. I still have a 12MB hard drive the size of a clothes washing machine. It contains code that I wrote back in the day.

I have designed and built computer hardware, and I have written operating system device drivers and mission-critical firmware. I have designed character fonts and rendering engines. I have studied the code inside PDF rendering engines. I am not confused easily by computers. People on the other hand, are a complete mystery to me...

The point of my post is that PDF files made up of IMAGES instead of OCR text can be very large files, and can consume a lot of RAM for the currently displayed page, and any cached pages used to speed up page changes.

Some people complain that I use too many words, and others incorrectly "fill in the blanks" when I do not use enough words, and then suggest that I do not understand. You cannot make everybody happy...

Last edited by geekmaster; 06-14-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:35 AM   #10
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Whenever you can do it, I'd honestly suggest converting PDFs to another format. PDFs are great when you want exact placement of things, like a brochure, or huge manual, but not for articles, recipes, photo essays, and readings with images. That's why they developed the K8 format. Richly detailed books without the excess bulk that comes with other formats.

The problem is that the PDFs are meant to scale for printing. Whether it's for a letter sized piece of paper, or it's for a huge poster for a billboard. Open up any manual online and see how far it lets you zoom in until the images and text aren't clear anymore, for example (I just did and it let me zoom to 1,000%+ ). When you embed images, it's just sticking them in without any quality compression. That's where you get those 50MB files for only just a few 20-50 pages.

And no, computer "memory" and "storage" is not the same thing. TECHNICALLY, sure, but let's not get people confused geekmaster.

The Kindle Touch has 256MB of DRAM memory according to the teardowns and specifications of that part. The Kindles before the third/keyboard have 128MB. The Kindle OS probably takes about 20-50 of it on its own, the rest for the reading, browsing, etc "apps" if you call them. It's like when your computer starts and has to load the Windows/Mac OS GUI and you open up Internet Explorer or Safari.

The Kindle storage on the other hand varies from 2-4GB depending on the model. That is where your books and whatever else you keep in there is. However, as you note, when they tell you it's 2GB, and it's only 1.4GB, it's not just because of the fancy number explanations they give you about the bytes and rounding, etc, it's because they've allocated the remaining 600MB for the OS, drivers, firmware updates, and virtual memory (which the Kindles must have very little of). So when you open up that 50MB PDF file, it uses a little bit of your RAM just to open it, and a little bit of virtual memory/that allocated hard drive space to store those images until you either turn off the Kindle completely or it expires (depending on how Amazon handles that anyway). Think of it as your internet browser cache which saves most of the GUI of websites so it can render them faster as you navigate and go back to pages the next day.

So when you get that error that your Kindle doesn't have enough memory to render the rest of the pages, it's because there is not enough space VIRTUALLY to handle the images and embedded text in that PDF. It's not a problem with Amazon bought ebooks because they have guidelines in place that don't let authors use images bigger than 127KB in size.

Last edited by Jessica Lares; 06-14-2012 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:12 AM   #11
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And no, computer "memory" and "storage" is not the same thing. TECHNICALLY, sure, but let's not get people confused geekmaster.
As you say, TECHNICALLY I am correct, so it is YOU (and others) who are confusing people by misusing TECHNICAL terminology in a WRONG and MISLEADING manner.

What you call STORAGE is mmc flash MEMORY. Flash memory is a form of nonvolatile MEMORY. The part of it that you see as a USB drive only LOOKS like a hard drive, but it is really flash MEMORY.

Sure, you can STORE stuff on it, but you also STORE stuff in DRAM, and in fact those contents are nonvolatile as well (even when in screensaver mode), unless your kindle gets restarted.

It is you who are misusing the terminology (and perhaps others here). Yes, in the kindle there are two types of MEMORY just like I said. And the operating system treats them both the same way. What looks like a hard drive is partly in RAM (/tmp), and partly on the mmc flash memory (the root partition, and the exported USB drive partition).

What looks like "RAM" can also be on both devices because linux maps files in using virtual memory. The files are assigned CPU memory addresses. But move back and forth between mmc and RAM depending on CPU load.

I believe that you are misusing technical terminology. Not me.

If you wish to distinguish between the different types of memory storage devices used in the kindle, the CORRECT names are RAM and MMC. They are NOT "memory" and "storage".

Before you falsely accuse me of being wrong again, please look up the definitions of the words. I will even help educate you so you can stop telling people who design this stuff and have used it on a daily basis for decades that THEY are wrong.

Both of the following quoted defining phrases are the first links in the first sentence of each page:

Wikipedia defines MMC (what you call STORAGE) as "flash memory memory card": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MultiMediaCard.

Wikipedia defines RAM (what you call MEMORY) as "computer data storage": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_memory


You have your terminology the EXACT OPPOSITE of Wikipedia. You will find examples supporting your usage too, which just proves my statement that MEMORY and STORAGE are interchangeable and mean exactly the same thing.

Please stop telling ME that I am wrong until you get your own terminology straight, which is really what "confuses people" (as you said).

P.S. At least HarryT clearly defined his usage of "memory" and "storage" (above) as "memory - RAM" and "file storage space". Those complete phrases are technically accurate, but just using the bare interchangeable words by themselves is not accurate. Accurately using language is critical when you choose to participate in a debate such as this (especially when your argument goes AGAINST the supporting evidence: Wikipedia in this case).

Last edited by geekmaster; 06-19-2012 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:39 AM   #12
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Leaving to one side these doubtless interesting discussions of the definitions of different types of storage space, it's worth noting that PDF complexity is not just related to the size of images. A PDF page is rendered by executing drawing instructions stored in the PostScript language, and if a page contains complex diagrams, for example, these instructions can require more memory to execute than the Kindle has available. This can lead to the "out of memory" error that the OP saw.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:50 AM   #13
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Leaving to one side these doubtless interesting discussions of the definitions of different types of storage space, it's worth noting that PDF complexity is not just related to the size of images. A PDF page is rendered by executing drawing instructions stored in the PostScript language, and if a page contains complex diagrams, for example, these instructions can require more memory to execute than the Kindle has available. This can lead to the "out of memory" error that the OP saw.
There are certainly other forms of complexity in PDF files that can consume memory, but generally, instructions to dynamically build a page are an extremely efficient form of "data aware" compression (the best kind). The real problem is the temporary storage buffers in RAM that these instructions use while building image layers that get displayed. Full-page images of text pages (scanned books that were not OCR'd) use much poorer "generic" compression than dynamically generated images created from PostScript instructions, and are likely to consume more RAM just like they consumed more disk space on the USB drive.

Regarding using up available RAM storage space, OTHER apps that run "all the time" are stored in RAM while they are running, and they will also consume RAM storage space. You can see these with the "top" command from an SSH command prompt (which requires a hack). Kindles also slowly run out of memory and may need rebooting occasionally, to free up some RAM, due to how the single-process Java virtual machine allocates static memory for kindlet apps, which NEVER gets freed until you reboot.

There are reports in other threads that large PDF files that fail to load SUCCESSFULLY load after rebooting.

Last edited by geekmaster; 06-14-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:59 AM   #14
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There are reports in other threads that large PDF files that fail to load SUCCESSFULLY load after rebooting.
Same goes for web-browsing since it clears the memory cache. You can clear the browser cache in settings, but it does not seem to work as well as a reboot. So, in some large memory intensive pdf's it might be worth a try.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:11 AM   #15
Jessica Lares
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WHO CARES?! Obviously you do, of course. However, the way you are putting it isn't understandable by the average person who would like to know the difference. It is like typing LOL, BRB, and other shorthand. You have to explain to educate, not to show off you're more intelligent. You also have to understand that just telling people to search for information themselves doesn't do a thing. It is an attitude like that which made me, as well as a lot of other people really hate our teachers in secondary school. You can read a book, but it doesn't mean you'll understand beyond what the text says, except what it does, especially in a dictionary.

Another thing, Wikipedia is user-generated content, anyone can edit it. Anyone who studied in this decade will know that it's not accepted as a single credible source.
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