Sorting authors with space in last name

[GeoffR]

I am using Calibre (0.9.15) to send books to my Glo (fw 2.3.2), and all the metadata appears to be present and correct in the .epub once it gets to the device, but it seems that the Glo is not using the {author_sort} information to sort by author, instead it seems to be applying its own algorithm to the {authors} information.

For example, I have a book by "Mark R. Van Name". In Calibre {authors} is "Mark R. Van Name" and {author_sort} is "Van Name, Mark R."

But my Glo is listing this author under N, not under V.

I guess it is looking at "Mark R. Van Name" and arranging it as "Name, Mark R. Van" for sorting purposes. For most names this would give the correct result, but not when the surname is made up of two seperate words.

Could this be a metadata problem, or is the Glo just not reading the metadata correctly? Does anyone have a work-around?

[nogle]

Welcome to the world of difficult last names. My last name has odd capitalization and [had] a space. As records became computerized many years ago, I ran into many difficulties the end result of which was removal of the space. I still often end up at the beginning or end of lists due to unusual capitalization.

[Mrs_Often]

Actually, Kobo is listing that name perfectly under N!

The surname "Van Name" sounds Dutch or otherwise related to Dutch. The "Van" is actually officially (originally) written without a capital and is a joint word, meaning "of" or "from". So it's Mark R. from Name. You wouldn't say Mark R. From Name.

Official alphabetising of surnames with joint words is to sort the name with the first letter of the actual surname, so not of the joint word. In this case, the "N."

[Mrs_Often]

Originally Posted by nogle

Welcome to the world of difficult last names. My last name has odd capitalization and [had] a space. As records became computerized many years ago, I ran into many difficulties the end result of which was removal of the space. I still often end up at the beginning or end of lists due to unusual capitalization.

Interesting! *I* want one of those special surnames!

[nogle]

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Interesting! *I* want one of those special surnames!

It is one of those crazy dutch names you so eloquently describe above.

[davidfor]

@GeoffR: Remember the discussion on multiple authors a week or so ago? It all related to parts in that.

The epubs have something like:

<dc:creator opf:file-as="Niven, Larry &amp; Pournelle, Jerry" opf:role="aut">Larry Niven</dc:creator>

The text part, "Larry Niven", is what the Kobo devices used for the author. How it uses this for sorting depends on the formatting. The cases I have seen and checked and hopefully remembered correctly:

- Larry Niven - sorts as "Niven, Larry"
- Niven, Larry - sorts as "Niven, Larry"
- Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle - sorts as "Pournelle, Larry Niven & Jerry"
- Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle - sorts as "Pournelle, Larry Niven and Jerry"
- Niven, Larry & Pournelle, Jerry - sorts as "Niven, Larry & Pournelle, Jerry"
- Stephen Goldin, Mary Mason - sorts as "Goldin, Stephen, Mary Mason"

What it appears to be doing is using the last word before either a comma or the end of the name as the surname. For the multiple name examples above, I think the rest of the name works line that, but I don't remember if I have tried examples to prove it.

To get the sorting, at least for a single author, the same as in calibre, you would need to use a metadata plugboard to put {author_sort} in the author field. But, you are already playing with that to sort the multiple authors out.

[GeoffR]

Thanks davidfor, so Kobo is not reading the "file-as" information, but its sorting of the author names is very good, better than your examples suggest, even with multiple authors (except for the two word last name). For example sorting by author gives this ordering:

Steven Erikson
Eric Flint
Eric Flint and David Drake
Eric Flint and Dave Freer
Eric Flint and Marilyn Kosmatka
Eric Flint and K. D. Wentworth

I think this demonstrates that it recognises the word "and" and is sorting first on Flint, then on the surname of the second author. It also appears to work correctly for more then two authors such as

David Weber
David Weber, David Drake and S. M. Stirling
David Weber and Linda Evans

which I think shows that the three autthor example is being sorted first on Weber, then on the second author, so it is interpreting both the comma and "and" correctly.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Thanks davidfor, so Kobo is not reading the "file-as" information, but its sorting of the author names is very good, better than your examples suggest, even with multiple authors (except for the two word last name). For example sorting by author gives this ordering:

Yes, you are right. I just checked and "Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle" is between "China Mievelle" and "Jack O'Connell". I was working from memory for that

Overall, it looks like the sorting works well. The two part surnames look to be the only issue.

[Mrs_Often]

Originally Posted by nogle

It is one of those crazy dutch names you so eloquently describe above.

Eeeeh nice! Living in the Netherlands though, I'd prefer to have my own name (a nice English one) than a regular Dutch one, keeps me special :P

Originally Posted by Mrs_Often

Actually, Kobo is listing that name perfectly under N!

The surname "Van Name" sounds Dutch or otherwise related to Dutch. The "Van" is actually officially (originally) written without a capital and is a joint word, meaning "of" or "from". So it's Mark R. from Name. You wouldn't say Mark R. From Name.

Official alphabetising of surnames with joint words is to sort the name with the first letter of the actual surname, so not of the joint word. In this case, the "N."

Just to add to that, the official sorting would be: "Name, Mark R. van"

Funnily enough, in the Dutch part of Belgium, they use that joint word as part of the surname and sort it the way you're looking for and use a capital: "Van Name, Mark R." Of course, I disagree with that :P

[Randyksy]

I am also thankful of your davidfor, For this information with supporting example.I know little bit about it before but now you taught me what is exactly.