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Old 01-16-2013, 09:01 AM   #31
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Going off topic slightly;

"Declare a Interest" is a phrase used by lawyers I believe.

I would like to see people who are directly or indirectly employed by Kobo to "declare" that fact in their posts so that those of us who are just customers can gauge what those people have to say.

Similarly anyone posting who works directly or indirectly for Kobo's competitor should also declare that. (don't hold out much hope for the latter)

Sharkus has set a good example by "declaring", perhaps the others will follow ?

Last edited by mXb; 01-16-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:21 AM   #32
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Going off topic slightly;

"Declare a Interest" is a phrase used by lawyers I believe.

I would like to see people who are directly or indirectly employed by Kobo to "declare" that fact in their posts so that those of us who are just customers can gauge what those people have to say.

Similarly anyone posting who works directly or indirectly for Kobo's competitor should also declare that. (don't hold out much hope for the latter)

Sharkus has set a good example by "declaring", perhaps the others will follow ?
Not a bad idea. The problem I see is that when it's known who we are, we may get threads directed to us, or PM's asking for help. It's quite possible we'll be unable to help, either due to the nature of the problem (for example it might not be specific to the app, or it might be for some reason that cannot be openly disclosed, even via a PM) or due to time constraints. I'm not sitting on the forum all the time, only occasionally check it, so may miss something.

If it's missed / ignored then this could be seen as Kobo not caring, when in fact it is simply that we didn't see the thread / PM or have time to respond to it.

The other point is that if you do declare who you are, you are, wether you like it or not, seen as acting for the company, and that a far reaching thing, what you say can be seen as being totally accurate, and that isn't always the case, and again that would paint Kobo in a poor light.

It also means that I do have to be very careful with replies, lots of tongue biting, whereas if I was "unknown" I could be very scathing, sarcastic, or downright rude when replying to another user. I'm not known for shying away from saying things, but when you're seen to represent your employer, disclaimer or no, you *do* have to be *very* careful in what you say.

I do like the point about those from other companies having to declare themselves as well.

Mods / Admin - curious to know what you may think about such a system (could be a new usergroup, specific color tag for the user name to indicate a 'known and verified employee of a company'). Perhaps a rule addition, required for acceptance at registration (or after - a modification can be added to do this if one is not in place) where you agree if you are affiliated with a company, you do need to declare this. A bit harsh perhaps though?
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:45 PM   #33
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I think that Kobo only has one official company spokesperson here - Sameer. And he appears to have disappeared, perhaps for a number of the reasons cited.

I can see the problem from an employee/employer point of view; from time to time, employees will have material non-public information that they can't disclose or discuss. Doing so could have financial and legal repercussions for both the company and the employee.

If I were in senior management at Kobo, I think I would have a policy in place for participation in such forums. Employees would be allowed to participate provided that they refrain from offering comments on the internal operations of the company, discussion of future products and/or firmwares, and technical support. I would also require that employees use a generic disclaimer in all their postings taht any opinions offered are theirs only and do not represent their employer, probably without even mentioning who the employer is.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #34
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… it's pushing people away! And meeera was actually being really, really understanding. More understanding than I am at the moment. And remember taming? No? Well, there you go.
Hi Mrs. Often. I looked at the board for the first time in months today.

I am still actively participating n the beta group, reading a whole lot on my Glo, and still feeling very invested in Kobo as a device and platform. I left off posting on the Kobo board because the joy I felt in helping folks, explaining things, and being part of a community no longer was enough to make up for the negativity and personal attacks. Life's too short.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by taming View Post
Hi Mrs. Often. I looked at the board for the first time in months today.

I am still actively participating n the beta group, reading a whole lot on my Glo, and still feeling very invested in Kobo as a device and platform. I left off posting on the Kobo board because the joy I felt in helping folks, explaining things, and being part of a community no longer was enough to make up for the negativity and personal attacks. Life's too short.
Thank you taming. You just completely proved the point of this thread!

I had a feeling you were still active but ran away from negativity
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:14 PM   #36
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...and being part of a community no longer was enough to make up for the negativity and personal attacks. Life's too short.
Welcome back Taming. I noticed your absence and was curious why. Your gain was our loss.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:51 PM   #37
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I replied in another thread about the fact I've had no problems with my touch at all since I bought it a year ago.
I think if you have a problem with something ask for advice but if it all gets too hard and the thread turns into a s**t fight, seek help from the maker or throw it in the bin and get something else. That's what I usually do with toasters etc.!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:25 PM   #38
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Mrs_Often,

If I've offended you, or any forum regulars, my apologies, but I, like most folks, have buttons that occasionally get pushed. When someone comes into a forum, working for a manufacturer and expresses that consumers shouldn't be expressing our displeasure at the expense of the company causing a great deal of aggravation to their own consumers, it sort of whacks the big red button at the top of the pile. This is not how business and user forums work. We paid our money, we have a right to express our opinions. If they want better feedback, do better. That's the way it works. Don't dare whine about negative impact, do better.

I love my Touch and my Glo, they are great, if slightly to moderately at times flawed, products in terms of software, but I refuse to act like a fanboy. Leave that for the near iluddites that buy iEverything because it's made by iApple.

I'm terribly sorry if any Kobo employees are experiencing psychic distress because consumers find fault with their work or that of their colleagues, but that should be all the more motivation to resolve those issues that they might bask in the Glo of our never-ending praise.(yeah, Glo not Glow, had to leave that in) I think folks are pretty even handed around here about dishing out equal praise for what we do like -much more so than in a lot of forums where it is predominately negative because people go online to solve problems moreso than gush empty praise.

I think some of you flower children need to consider that peace and love and positive thinking do not plow the fields, till the soil, or weed the garden. The forum members here, in many cases, offer advice superior to Kobo's own tech support. Kobo has things they need to work on and we will not do them, ourselves, or potential customers any service by ignoring their shortcomings. This is business, not mentoring, teaching, or raising one's children.

I am not generally, a cold, harsh or difficult person, I will go far out of my way in my work or socially to help others, but I draw the line at a company's representative stating, or even implying that, we the consumers -and often the ad hoc tech department, should be careful of what we say about a product or development team because of the negative impact it may have on them. Get real and do your jobs and we will have nothing about which to carp.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by TechniSol View Post
I, like most folks, have buttons that occasionally get pushed. When someone comes into a forum, working for a manufacturer and expresses that consumers shouldn't be expressing our displeasure at the expense of the company causing a great deal of aggravation to their own consumers, it sort of whacks the big red button at the top of the pile. This is not how business and user forums work. We paid our money, we have a right to express our opinions. If they want better feedback, do better. That's the way it works. Don't dare whine about negative impact, do better.
Very well written. I couldn't agree more.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:02 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Pete in Gisborne View Post
I replied in another thread about the fact I've had no problems with my touch at all since I bought it a year ago.
I think if you have a problem with something ask for advice but if it all gets too hard and the thread turns into a s**t fight, seek help from the maker or throw it in the bin and get something else. That's what I usually do with toasters etc.!!
I am glad you have the money to throw $100+ items in the bin - 'cos I don't. If you find no bugs in the Touch software, you haven't been looking. Check out the threads here, and verify them for yourself - people are NOT imagining them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:04 AM   #41
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Mrs_Often,

If I've offended you, or any forum regulars, my apologies, but [...]
Not at all, you weren't aiming anything of what you said at me and I wouldn't take anything personally if you were.

I understand everything you describe and might even agree with you, but only to a certain extent. Yes, we must be honest about the bugs and what we are displeased about without sugar coating anything or sparing anyone's feelings. But on the other hand, coming to the forum and venting for the umpteenth time without that vent being productive or informative creates an overall negative forum, and that is not an attractive place for people that like coming here to help.

I know you mentioned your buttons were pressed by Sharkus as a Kobo employee, and I understand that. On the other hand, Sharkus was only pointing out the other side: how the way the forum's development affects Kobo employees. Sure, bugs and issues they listen to, but the attacks at Kobo could be really hurtful for a Kobo employee who is working their arse off to try and sort things out (maybe with difficulties that have nothing to do with their department). We must remember that Kobo employees are just regular, hard working people.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:20 AM   #42
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:45 AM   #43
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Disclaimer: These are my personal views and do not represent those of my employer
Adding another facet here. What about the impact of this negativity on those who work for Kobo and post on this board, both those who work on the teams being criticized and those who don't?

How would you feel if you saw someone continually twisting the knife about something which you work on, and are possibly trying to resolve, or perhaps cannot due to other extenuating factors, but still the twisting continues.

It'd be somewhat melodramatic to say it's soul destroying, but it certainly isn't pleasant.

Well ... it is not pleasant either for customers to experience the bugs they are complaining about. So just do your work properly, fix the product and you won't have to endure all the negativity.
To complain about (rightfully) complaining customers is maybe not the proper way to do business ....
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 AM   #44
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Well ... it is not pleasant either for customers to experience the bugs they are complaining about. So just do your work properly, fix the product and you won't have to endure all the negativity.
To complain about (rightfully) complaining customers is maybe not the proper way to do business ....
In the absence of "perfect" firmware I guess the solution is for Kobo employees to stop being present on the forum. I'm sure that'll work out better for everyone.
... I'm out too.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:31 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by mXb View Post
I would like to see people who are directly or indirectly employed by Kobo to "declare" that fact in their posts so that those of us who are just customers can gauge what those people have to say.
I think the same would go for Rakuten (Kobo) stockholders.

Quote:
Similarly anyone posting who works directly or indirectly for Kobo's competitor should also declare that.
Then stockholders for other companies making mobile reading devices, including tablets, should declare that.

Quote:
(don't hold out much hope for the latter)
I used to participate in a board where you were required to declare your real name. People mostly ignored the rule. Same would happen here if financial interests had to be declared. Ultimately, you have to take what you read here with the proverbial grain of salt.

Still, cheers to those who do state a financial interest.
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