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Old 01-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #16
HarryT
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They effectively have gone for a form of ePub. The "KF8" format which most Kindle books now use is essentially ePub 3 in a Mobi "wrapper".
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:00 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BadBilly View Post
I don't think so. There are still plenty of people locked into iPods and iTunes because they're purchasing music from Apple and can't use their DRM protected stuff elsewhere. Plenty are trapped and don't know what options they might have.
Itunes songs are not drm protected any more. I just bought some songs yesterday and they are all over the house laptops and what not...
But I do agree with you that a lot of people have not even heard of Calibre, do not know they can remove drm or even that there is drm on the books they "bought"...but once they by chance find out - wanting to buy another reader, to borrow a ebook from a friend or what have you - then thanks to google they can find info on everything in just about an hour or so...Speaking from experience...
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:31 PM   #18
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I would contend that it could be good for business. They don't need to make it their primary format.

That sounds like smart business.
But it isn't. ADEPT is incompatible with Whispernet.
Amazon would have to run *two* separate server systems, doubling their overhead. Given the state of the market (where they already own 55-65% market share) there is no way the return on investment will be made up by going after disgruntled customers. Who, if they're disgruntled enough will be coming to them anyway.

That kind of poaching makes more sense for lesser players (Kobo and Sony) than the market leader. For Kobo, poaching even 10% of Nook's (26% US market share) customers would be a noticeable boost to their 6-8% market share. And all they have to do is add support for B&N DRM, not set up a whole new ebookstore.

And they haven't, have they?
Neither has Sony.
Or Apple.
Or BoB.
Or any of the generic ADEPT stores.

Either all the ebookstores are run by bad business types or they see no profit in going after Nook owners.

Last edited by fjtorres; 01-04-2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:29 PM   #19
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They effectively have gone for a form of ePub. The "KF8" format which most Kindle books now use is essentially ePub 3 in a Mobi "wrapper".
But my cybook still won't read these.
Amazon by doing that also prevents people owing a nook / sony / kobo to switi to amazon without loosing this books.
I wouldn't mind buying books from amazon, but hey, wrong format. They win money with kindle users unable to buy books elsewhere, but how many sales lost to non kindle owners ? How many kindle sales lost because the person owns a nook / kobo and can't switch ?
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:03 PM   #20
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Quite a few business are run into the ground in the pursuit of "every last posible customer". Palm computing comes to mind as one company that put market share above profitability.
Some customers cost more than they're worth.

Amazon has a business model that works for them and their customers. They are under no obligation to change it to appeal to people who want things done *their* way and no other way. They are one of the most customer-friendly companies around but they do have their limits.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EowynCarter View Post
But my cybook still won't read these.
Amazon by doing that also prevents people owing a nook / sony / kobo to switi to amazon without loosing this books.
I wouldn't mind buying books from amazon, but hey, wrong format. They win money with kindle users unable to buy books elsewhere, but how many sales lost to non kindle owners ? How many kindle sales lost because the person owns a nook / kobo and can't switch ?
Ya makes yer choices, ya plays yer game.

Recent news is that B&N is still going down. I can't imagine Sony is doing much good with their store, I really don't know about Kobo. As I see it the only two players really are Apple and Amazon at this point (or very soon).

I personally prefer the epub format, and still use it, but after several years virtually all my purchases are from Amazon in kindle format (that I strip for future safety and conversion) but as it stands I could live with just amazon since I can also get my library books that way now.

I went into this with my eyes open, purchased a sony 505 and others as well as a K2 so I'd have all the bases covered but as things have settled down it has centered on the amazon format and readers. Now if we could just get rid of that damned DRM! Without DRM there are only minor conversion issues if any.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:39 PM   #22
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Now if we could just get rid of that damned DRM! Without DRM there are only minor conversion issues if any.
You've made the acquaintance of our friend Alf, I trust?
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:11 PM   #23
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The non-Kindle eink market is small and the percentage of non-Kindle eink users who don't already use Amazon is practically nil, since many of those same people have smart phones or tablets or computers loaded with Amazon's plethora of free apps to access Kindle format ebooks.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RHWright View Post

Even if they did drop .azw as their standard and went to a form of .epub (like most of the other big players), they seem fully capable of competing on service, pricing, and selection. I'm not a big fan of their hardware, but the service and pricing factor can be very persuasive in that equation.
__________________________________________________ _________

Do you really think the pricing factor will be sustained? After a while they are going to have to stop selling below cost. I do not see how they can survive. Just like the housing crisis, the bubble will burst sometime.

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Old 01-04-2013, 06:51 PM   #25
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__________________________________________________ _________

Do you really think the pricing factor will be sustained? After a while they are going to have to stop selling below cost. I do not see how they can survive. Just like the housing crisis, the bubble will burst sometime.

Auntykatkat
It's not clear that they are actually selling below cost. Regardless, though, the razor bubble has not burst...and it's not clear that selling readers cheaply and making the money up on e-books and media is a bad scheme.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #26
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I have a friend who has a Kindle. I tried to give her a public domain copy of a classic novel that I'd converted to mobi for her. It all went well until she confessed not knowing how to even get this file I e-mailed her into her Kindle. THAT is the future of e-book reading. It's exactly what the retailers want.
That's true. Two friends of mine that use Kindle are just the same. They don't even know that you can connect your Kindle to your PC. They just use the Kindle store and the Amazon Cloud for Personal Documents.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:08 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
It's not clear that they are actually selling below cost. Regardless, though, the razor bubble has not burst...and it's not clear that selling readers cheaply and making the money up on e-books and media is a bad scheme.
It's worked for printer manufacturers and ink and toner for decades.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:46 PM   #28
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I don't think so. There are still plenty of people locked into iPods and iTunes because they're purchasing music from Apple and can't use their DRM protected stuff elsewhere. Plenty are trapped and don't know what options they might have.

It's similar with e-books and e-book readers. I have a friend who has a Kindle. I tried to give her a public domain copy of a classic novel that I'd converted to mobi for her. It all went well until she confessed not knowing how to even get this file I e-mailed her into her Kindle. THAT is the future of e-book reading. It's exactly what the retailers want.

In both the iTunes and e-book cases, there are ways around it, but they're obscure, inconvenient, and cumbersome enough that many people don't even know it's an option. Others that find out dismiss it as too much trouble.
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That's true. Two friends of mine that use Kindle are just the same. They don't even know that you can connect your Kindle to your PC. They just use the Kindle store and the Amazon Cloud for Personal Documents.
As with any product there are 'users' and then there are 'better users' - and I guess that because we're members of MR we fit into the second category.

There'll always be people who don't really get across their device (no matter what it is), and then there are the rest who do.

As to the percentages in each category with respect to ebooks, who knows? But one thing to keep in mind is that ereaders are still 'new' ideas and that as they infiltrate generally into the community the word will definitely get around as to how to use them to suit the individual - and all that may entail.

Again, whether a person takes up that knowledge or not is up to them.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:51 PM   #29
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Itunes songs are not drm protected any more. I just bought some songs yesterday and they are all over the house laptops and what not...
But I do agree with you that a lot of people have not even heard of Calibre, do not know they can remove drm or even that there is drm on the books they "bought"...but once they by chance find out - wanting to buy another reader, to borrow a ebook from a friend or what have you - then thanks to google they can find info on everything in just about an hour or so...Speaking from experience...
Yep ..... that's how I worked it all out, as I'm sure many of the members on this site did too.

Word gets around and those interested will pursue the wheres and why fors, and then in conversation they pass it on etc etc.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:56 PM   #30
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They effectively have gone for a form of ePub. The "KF8" format which most Kindle books now use is essentially ePub 3 in a Mobi "wrapper".
But as it makes much more sense for a publisher to make one ePub for all, then KF8 is not going to be any better then ePub.
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