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Old 01-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #76
PatNY
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You should have to do a great job -- but only at those things which are reasonably within your control. Fire the coach for having injured players play? Sure. Fire the coach because he had an above-average number of injuries this year, and other teams less? No.
The missteps of B&N execs over the last few years were their own. No one else was walking in their shoes. They had complete control over their direction. And your sports analogy in this particular instance is not relevant. There is no evidence that their Nook operations were short-handed the last few years or that some virulent flu swept through their staff making them incapable of making smart product and marketing decisions.


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I'm not convinced of that. I am convinced that internet pressure to fire people more often is not the way to a more prosperous, much less humane, society.
What internet pressure? The pressure is coming mainly from the shareholders, investors and partners like Microsoft, and Wall Street. We are merely a few interested consumers talking on a forum.

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Old 01-05-2013, 10:55 AM   #77
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The Nook, like the Kindle is technology, but it's not about the technology, that's merely a means to an end. That end is selling books. Barnes and Noble should have had an advantage over Amazon, but they squander it.

A friend of mine had a Nook, but it had problems. It was under warranty, but the Nook customer service was highly uncooperative. He went to Barnes and Noble, talked to the manager, and the manager called up customer service. Customer service wouldn't cooperate with even the manager. The manager was screaming at customer service, still no cooperation. The manager gave up, and took a Nook from the shelf and gave it to my friend.

He then returned it and used the money to buy a Kindle. The obvious solution would be a clean house and have a customer service as good as the Kindle has. People who are part of the problem can never be called upon to recognize the problem.

I own a Kindle, but if Barnes and Noble goes under, that's not good news. Competition is the only thing that keeps company's honest. Amazon's not my friend, they have their own interests, and competition keeps their interests in line with my own.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:59 AM   #78
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The Kindle(s) are not open , in some regard :-) ... and sell like hot cakes. But you can find any type of book at extremely good prices. Actually, B&N tablets allow you to side load books via SD Card. You have no SD slot in Kindle(s)
FWIG, the Kindle Fires are more open to sideloading Android apps than the Nook tablets. With the Kindle Fire, you merely have to enable an option in settings. But with the Nook tablet, you have to jump through hoops to get the apps to work, and it's too much for the average consumer to go through.

Also, Amazon can afford to keep its Kindle Fire locked in some respects since it has a richer app store. B&N doesn't have that luxury.

--Pat
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #79
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They can't fire Amazon. Or Apple.

You mean Amazon and Google, right?

At any rate, Amazon and Google were not responsible, directly or indirectly, for B&N's tiny app store, or for their shiny fat rounded bezel which many have unflatteringly called toy-like, or for their decision to have the Nook tablets so locked down.

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Old 01-05-2013, 11:10 AM   #80
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I believe it is commonly known, and easy to find out for those who are interested, that Amazon has decided not to worry about the folks who are rooting and sideloading on the Fire. Amazon seems to think that it is a small enough number of people that it is not worth the effort to stop it.

Amazon also has a built in media player and a good number of free movies and shows which BN does not.

Let's face it, BN was late to the game. By the time the Nook was out,Amazon was dominant. By the time BN bookstore equalled Amazon, Amazon had solidified that position. BN cannot compete internationally, they won't even sell their e-reader to people outside the US even though there are plenty of EPub providers for the Nook.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:20 AM   #81
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It's a chicken and egg problem that starts with a strangled chicken.
Priceless.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
BN cannot compete internationally, they won't even sell their e-reader to people outside the US even though there are plenty of EPub providers for the Nook.
Not to nitpick, but BN is selling the Nook in England. But I agree, they were late going international and that really hurt them.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/20/n...ional-dabbles/

http://uk.nook.com/
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:52 PM   #83
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One country, poorly executed, is not what BN needs. When Amazon went international the Kindle was available on every continent, sans Antartica and geo restricted books were available to all. Since then, Amazon has slowly introduced Amazon bookstores for specific countries. Kobo has done a more extensive international roll out but still does not match Amazon. Sony has sold its ereader internationally longer than Amazon but its price point was silly expensive.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:32 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatNY View Post
FWIG, the Kindle Fires are more open to sideloading Android apps than the Nook tablets. With the Kindle Fire, you merely have to enable an option in settings. But with the Nook tablet, you have to jump through hoops to get the apps to work, and it's too much for the average consumer to go through.

Also, Amazon can afford to keep its Kindle Fire locked in some respects since it has a richer app store. B&N doesn't have that luxury.

--Pat
I know that, had one and sold it. I was referring to the SD card slot.

Kindle Fire doesn't allow Google market access, unless you root it.

Yes, you can install some Google apps with few tricks but the UI is locked into Amazon's store.

Regarding your comment about Amazon store, that's exactly what I'm saying and mentioned in my other two posts, that B&N problems are more related to content than hardware quality or open UI. At least, in my opinion.

Last edited by jocampo; 01-05-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
One country, poorly executed, is not what BN needs.
Replicating worldwide the policies that have rendered them non-competitive in the US would simply make them non-competitive in more countries, no?
Or are we to believe that customers outside the US are more tolerant of bad Customer Service, mediocre websites, and locked-down hardware with barren apps stores? They need to fix their business at home first before exporting it.

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Old 01-05-2013, 02:06 PM   #86
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Agreed, BN store has been lacking and the lack of an international market plan has hurt them. The tablet market was not likely to work for them because most people are not going to think BN and tablet. The Fire is selling well because of its price point but also because people know that Amazon sells movies, tv shows, books, and music. Amazon was better prepared to build an app store.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #87
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Amazon was better prepared to build an app store.
And their appstore stands alone from the FIRE.
You can use it with any open tablet or cellphone. Which makes it more attractive to developers than if it only worked with the Amazon tablets.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #88
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Replicating worldwide the policies that have rendered them non-competitive in the US would simply make them non-competitive in more countries, no?
Or are we to believe that customers outside the US are more tolerant of bad Customer Service, mediocre websites, and locked-down hardware with barren apps stores? They need to fix their business at home first before exporting it.
I don't know, Sony has hung in with a similar model and a higher price point for a while there. Sony was, heck still might be, the prefered ereader outside the US. Sony has never had a good supply of books, the customer service has always been suspect, and the hardware is limited.

Sony was screwed in the US when the Kindle entered the scene but seems to be doing ok outside the US.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:43 PM   #89
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What is the likelihood that Barns and Nobles will go out of business?
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #90
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I don't know, Sony has hung in with a similar model and a higher price point for a while there. Sony was, heck still might be, the prefered ereader outside the US. Sony has never had a good supply of books, the customer service has always been suspect, and the hardware is limited.

Sony was screwed in the US when the Kindle entered the scene but seems to be doing ok outside the US.
Sony has a rabid brand loyalty from the kids that grew up with the Playstation One. To this day they are mortally offended that Microsoft *dared* to compete at all.

B&N has no such brand loyalty equity to draw upon outside the US.
Besides, Sony readers (and their bookstore) are generic ADEPT to the core in DRM and reading app so they are as open as any other epub vendor. So if you are religious about ebook format Sony is the reader for you.

Me, I think Sony really only made one mistake: adopting ADEPT in the first place.
Everything else they could have overcome (the 700, the pricing mis-steps, the lack of wireless) but not that one.
It cost them a whole year in rebuilding their ebookstore and that was the year when Kindle was ramping up. By the time they were ready to compete head on with Kindle, Amazon was on to the K2 and they never looked back. After that everything has been trying to play catch-up and simply too little/too late.

So in that respect, the one thing that cost them their first mover advantage is the only thing keeping them relevant these days. It's a funny business.

Last edited by fjtorres; 01-05-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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