Glo Kobo Glo: impossible to read PDFs?

[l_macd]

The Sony PRST1/T2 is meant to be best for PDF (don't know about Bebook etc) as it has text reflow, but even it isn't great. oj829 is spot on, this isn't really a failing of Kobo, none of the e-readers are designed for PDFs, they can read them, but if you are mainly reading PDFs, get yourself something like an iPad.

[jusmee]

Originally Posted by oj829

Religious issues aside about text-flow being heresy, it's not something I've ever seen promised in Kobo literature, but it is a feature I've seen mentioned by makers of various PDF-reading apps made for LCD tablets.

I think the general agreement is that an e-ink device from ANYBODY is probably not a great choice if a big chunk of your reading workload is going to be PDFs on portable devices: the screen refreshing, the lag in zooming, the possibility that an essential graphic might not render well in greyscale... People generally agree that if these things are going to be a problem, you should probably be looking at LCD-based devices. And even, then, some people fervently believe that even the best 7" or 9" color screen in the world presents a nuisance on PDFs.

The thing everyone seems to miss is that re-flow is a necessity with small ereaders because you are seldom using a device that is the same size as the target publication size of the PDF. All the while your screen is bigger than the PDF page, the PDF fixed page concept works, but for anyone to sell a device where the screen is smaller than nearly every PDF page size, they really NEED to include a reflow feature.

[PeterT]

I thought though that you also required the source PDF to support reflow.

[jusmee]

Originally Posted by PeterT

I thought though that you also required the source PDF to support reflow.

Not completely sure what you mean, but, so long as you understand the structure of the PDF file, and it contains text - not images of text, it will always be possible to read the information and display it, re-flowed, on the devices' screens.

[jusmee]

To add to that, at it's hardest, it is a bit like the task of displaying a plain text file, formatted to the devices screen.

[oj829]

Originally Posted by jusmee

To add to that, at it's hardest, it is a bit like the task of displaying a plain text file, formatted to the devices screen.

If it were that easy, then PDF-->HTML and PDF-->text conversion results would all have flawless and meaningful output. But they don't. Maybe someday.

IMHO, if you're going to have a lot of PDFs in your life, and you've even found flow/conversion software that you generally like and trust, x times out of 10 it's going to fail to produce something which will allow you to be productive.

I'd think that for when you find yourself in that position, you'd want a device in your hands that can just simply render the damn thing reasonably, already. e-ink is not that device today. A screen the size of the Glo's is not that device today.

[jusmee]

Originally Posted by oj829

If it were that easy, then PDF-->HTML and PDF-->text conversion results would all have flawless and meaningful output. But they don't. Maybe someday.

No-one's after flawless. I just want to be able to read it reasonably. I know it can be done adequately, because I own 2 devices that do it - Kobo isn't one of them.

[oj829]

I guess I'd also add that a device that is either locked in to a small or limited universe of apps; or completely run by vendor firmware, is also suboptimal for dealing with reflow on the fly, unless that locked-down device supplies apps or firmware which do everything exactly how you want under every circumstance.

Is there such an e-ink reader the Glo's size that meets this criteria today?

[jusmee]

Originally Posted by oj829

I guess I'd also add that a device that is either locked in to a small or limited universe of apps; or completely run by vendor firmware, is also suboptimal for dealing with reflow on the fly, unless that locked-down device supplies apps or firmware which do everything exactly how you want under every circumstance.

Is there such an e-ink reader the Glo's size that meets this criteria today?

Well, there exists completely alternate firmware by 3rd parties for some ereaders. Lbook firmware for BeBook/Astak/Hanlin is one example.

I still don't agree that, just because it is locked down to the vendor, that the vendor cannot manage to do reflow.

[oj829]

Originally Posted by jusmee

I still don't agree that, just because it is locked down to the vendor, that the vendor cannot manage to do reflow.

That's not what I said at all. When you're locked down to one vendor/supplier, you take what they hand you (even if it's modded firmware). If, over time, their product doesn't keep up with changes, then where are you? You have to change and make new choices anyway.

Modded firmware, which you've cited, is about choice, which is pretty much all I've been saying about PDF reading - it has to be about choice and flexibility.

Rooting my $129 tiny e-ink reader to accommodate PDF flow? No, thanks. Maybe for other purposes, but not that. I'd rather get the right tool for the job in the first place if I had to deal with PDFs.

[jusmee]

Originally Posted by oj829

That's not what I said at all. When you're locked down to one vendor/supplier, you take what they hand you (even if it's modded firmware). If, over time, their product doesn't keep up with changes, then where are you? You have to change and make new choices anyway.

I must have misunderstood then. Yes, next time I'll buy a different brand if the current one disappoints me too much. Given that people seem to say the business model is to sell books, not readers - that's real bad news for the vendor.

Originally Posted by oj829

Modded firmware, which you've cited, is about choice, which is pretty much all I've been saying about PDF reading - it has to be about choice and flexibility.

Rooting my $129 tiny e-ink reader to accommodate PDF flow? No, thanks. Maybe for other purposes, but not that. I'd rather get the right tool for the job in the first place if I had to deal with PDFs.

No need to root - not even sure the concept is valid, and you can return them to original any time you want. Running different firmware, on the devices I mentioned, is as simple as putting new firmware on them by placing it on the SD card and booting in a different mode that loads the "upgrade". Straying to far OT though, sorry

[Latinandgreek]

While I do make use of the reflow option on my Sony reader, I have found that I only really read PDFs on it in a pinch and generally use my iPad for PDFs.

Have you tried downloading Calibre (which is free) and using it to turn your PDFs into epubs? You might find that the results are better than using reflow on other ebook readers. If nothing else, page turns will probably be quicker.

[Crexis]

I tried Calibre, but found it absolutely horrible. It insist on 'managing' a library of ebooks, whereas I just need a simple PDB → EPUB converter, nothing else. Seems I have to import directories and keep all kinds of accounts and profiles and whatnot. Why 'import' at all (and what happens if I move or delete the ebook later on), I don't need all that. Way too overcomplicated for what I want: simply convert an ebook and be done with it.

However, I found two alternatives that may come in handy:

1. http://www.2epub.com/ seems to do pretty decent job (if Kobo could do the same internally for reflowing PDFs, that would be great!)

2. http://willus.com/k2pdfopt/ changes the layout of PDFs to fit on an ereader. A rather arcane interface, but kinda works OK.

Still find it ridiculous I have to do all this crap manually to properly read PDFs (if some random free piece of software can do it, why couldn't Kobo just build in something similar) but at least I can use my ereader for the purposes I intended.

[Elfuente]

As much as I understood, the Nook-Glowlight uses Android as OperatingSystem. That means, you can use Android applications. EzPdfReader works very good for Pdfs.
I consider to buy for that reason a nook-glowlight and sell the KG.

[kobokobe]

Originally Posted by Crexis

I tried Calibre, but found it absolutely horrible. It insist on 'managing' a library of ebooks, whereas I just need a simple PDB → EPUB converter, nothing else. Seems I have to import directories and keep all kinds of accounts and profiles and whatnot. Why 'import' at all (and what happens if I move or delete the ebook later on), I don't need all that. Way too overcomplicated for what I want: simply convert an ebook and be done with it.

How's that? Calibre is intended to be used primarily as your ebook library management tool, but it certainly does not force you to do so. If you want no part of its library management function, all you need do is drag your pdf to the library, convert, and put it on your device. I do use Calibre for library management, and I still didn't need to do any importing (unless you mean adding the files to the library, which is as simple as dragging and dropping), and certainly did no account/profile management.

Of course, if you just need a converting tool, and found a good one for free, then it's probably better for you, I just think you're a little misinformed about Calibre. Not that it's a big deal or anything.