Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Kobo Reader

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-24-2012, 02:35 AM   #226
GeoffR
Wizard
GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GeoffR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GeoffR's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,679
Karma: 3275450
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New Zealand
Device: Kobo Glo
I just noticed that the new feature in firmware 2.3.1 that allows adjusting the margins in epubs that couldn't be adjusted before is not as useful as I first thought -- it only allows margin size to be increased, not reduced. Great for books where the text runs right up to the bezel, but no use for for books that have the margins fixed too wide.
GeoffR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 02:39 AM   #227
jusmee
Guru
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 978
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kobo Touch / Astak Pocket Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffR View Post
I just noticed that the new feature in firmware 2.3.1 that allows adjusting the margins in epubs that couldn't be adjusted before is not as useful as I first thought -- it only allows margin size to be increased, not reduced. Great for books where the text runs right up to the bezel, but no use for for books that have the margins fixed too wide.
Why would they limit it like that? Sometimes I really despair of kobo's ability to develop decent code...
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 12-24-2012, 03:32 AM   #228
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmee View Post
Why would they limit it like that? Sometimes I really despair of kobo's ability to develop decent code...
Because they are not overriding the settings in the ebook's stylesheet? Why do I see continual complaints that basically amount to Kobo allowing books to be displayed the way the ebook creator intended. Given my often expressed love for Sigil, I tend to agree that the average ebook was created as cheaply as possible with little concern for how it looks on an ereader.

You might also want to remember that Kobo still seems to use the Adobe Reader Mobile code for epub books which also limits their ability to modify the ebooks appearance though it allows them to easily offer the ability to download and read Adobe DRMed library books. You win some, you lose some.

Regards,
David
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 03:43 AM   #229
jusmee
Guru
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 978
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kobo Touch / Astak Pocket Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
Because they are not overriding the settings in the ebook's stylesheet?
But they are, just in one direction only. If you are going to change it, then do it properly.
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 03:52 AM   #230
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmee View Post
But they are, just in one direction only. If you are going to change it, then do it properly.
I'd disagree. They are allowing you to reduce the margins the Kobo reader adds to those specified by the book's style. This is different from reducing the margins specified within the ebook's style settings. You can use Sigil or Calibre to reduce the ebook's margins to 0 to see the difference.

Regards,
David
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 03:58 AM   #231
jusmee
Guru
jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jusmee ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 978
Karma: 203682
Join Date: Oct 2009
Device: Kobo Touch / Astak Pocket Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
I'd disagree. They are allowing you to reduce the margins the Kobo reader adds to those specified by the book's style. This is different from reducing the margins specified within the ebook's style settings. You can use Sigil or Calibre to reduce the ebook's margins to 0 to see the difference.

Regards,
David
Nothing magic about reducing vs increasing. If you allow them to be altered, might as well be either way - in fact it should be allowed either way. Remember, the publisher has no knowledge of the format and/or shortcomings of your hardware device - therefore you need to provide the user with the best possible reading experience - original stylesheet not excepted.
jusmee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 11:02 AM   #232
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusmee View Post
Nothing magic about reducing vs increasing. If you allow them to be altered, might as well be either way - in fact it should be allowed either way. Remember, the publisher has no knowledge of the format and/or shortcomings of your hardware device - therefore you need to provide the user with the best possible reading experience - original stylesheet not excepted.
What I see is two different items here. The margins set by the Kobo and the margins set by the stylesheet. You can reduce or increase the margins set by the Kobo so to speak widening or shrinking the width of the column the epub will be displayed within. Within that column, the stylesheet can control the margins including such items as centering by using a margin:auto style.

One of the ereaders I've used does allow overriding the epub's margins. This did strange things to the display of one IBM publication where the images shift to the left margin while the captions are centered since they used different styles for centering. This type of behaviour is one of the reasons for my preference for mucking with the epub's styling using external tools such as Sigil or Calibre. As for the decision by Adobe with ADE/ARM to allow margin:auto to be interpreted as margin:0, well, EXPLETIVE DELETED!

You might want to check out Liz Castro's Pigs, Gourds and Wiki site for some interesting reading about epubs and the joys of different implementations.

Regards,
David

Last edited by DNSB; 12-24-2012 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Ms. Castro might appreciate having her name correctly spelled...
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 04:45 PM   #233
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,639
Karma: 25186576
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Strangely the margins now work in both directions on my Mini when they didn't with 2.15

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 05:01 PM   #234
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Margins everywhere and nary a word to read...

Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
Strangely the margins now work in both directions on my Mini when they didn't with 2.15

Helen
The issue is that if the epub has internally set the margins to say 25 points for left and right margins, the Kobo will not reduce those margins so the text will have a good chunk of white space down each edge. Few epubs have margins set that way with most using 5pt or less margins. For conversion, it's 72 points to the inch if you are playing with typography. The situation with Kobo's kepub format is different since they use a different rendering engine and a different DRM scheme from the rendering engine and DRM used by the Adobe Reader Mobile used for epubs.

Regards,
David
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 06:29 PM   #235
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,639
Karma: 25186576
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
The issue is that if the epub has internally set the margins to say 25 points for left and right margins, the Kobo will not reduce those margins so the text will have a good chunk of white space down each edge. Few epubs have margins set that way with most using 5pt or less margins. For conversion, it's 72 points to the inch if you are playing with typography. The situation with Kobo's kepub format is different since they use a different rendering engine and a different DRM scheme from the rendering engine and DRM used by the Adobe Reader Mobile used for epubs.

Regards,
David
Thanks for the info.

I am sure you are right, but I will tell you my experience for what it is worth.

Set margin in first book I read and it worked. Never worked again on next 27 books and I tried.

After upgrading to 2.3.1 margin changing worked on all four books I tried it on.
All epubs, all converted with calibre (I like my books formatted a certain way) all with calibre margins settings in page setup as 4.0 points.

Next time I add on a book, I will convert with 24 pt margins and see what happens.

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 08:22 PM   #236
Corpsegoddess
Groupie
Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.Corpsegoddess can grok the meaning of the universe.
 
Corpsegoddess's Avatar
 
Posts: 172
Karma: 154194
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Device: Black Kobo Touch, Onyx Aura
Still getting the multiple shelf issue, even with the new software. Just FYI for whoever's tracking that.
Corpsegoddess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 08:28 PM   #237
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Sample epub for margins wide and narrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
Thanks for the info.

I am sure you are right, but I will tell you my experience for what it is worth.

Set margin in first book I read and it worked. Never worked again on next 27 books and I tried.

After upgrading to 2.3.1 margin changing worked on all four books I tried it on.
All epubs, all converted with calibre (I like my books formatted a certain way) all with calibre margins settings in page setup as 4.0 points.

Next time I add on a book, I will convert with 24 pt margins and see what happens.

Helen
I've attached two copies of Charles Stross' Toast and other stories to this message.

Toast-wide.epub has my usual margin settings while Toast-narrow.epub has the margins set to a minimum of 25pt (some of the special items use narrower margins). As I said earlier, most books use minimal margins but you run into the odd one that uses wide margins, some for valid reasons, some for reasons that I can't grok.

Regards,
David
Attached Files
File Type: epub toast_narrow.epub (249.6 KB, 49 views)
File Type: epub toast_wide.epub (249.6 KB, 52 views)

Last edited by DNSB; 12-24-2012 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Corrected a typo
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2012, 10:43 PM   #238
JD Gumby
Cynical Old Curmudgeon
JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JD Gumby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,085
Karma: 8495224
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Halifax, Canada
Device: Kobo Mini, Kobo Arc, HTC Desire C
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
There is a thread here discussing this problem. And you are right, it happens when the paragraph is longer than what will fit on a screen. As far as I know, it is new with 2.3.1
No. That's an ancient bug - been around since at least May '11 (as has the bad widow/orphan handling). ie, for as long as I've had my Kobo Touch.
JD Gumby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 12:29 AM   #239
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,639
Karma: 25186576
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
I've attached two copies of Charles Stross' Toast and other stories to this message.

Toast-wide.epub has my usual margin settings while Toast-narrow.epub has the margins set to a minimum of 25pt (some of the special items use narrower margins). As I said earlier, most books use minimal margins but you run into the odd one that uses wide margins, some for valid reasons, some for reasons that I can't grok.

Regards,
David
I put both books on Kobo Mini.
Margins on both books can be changed by the same amount as far as I can determine.
Toast_narrow starts (smallest margin setting on Kobo) almost at the edge of screen and can be adjusted in about an inch.
Toast_wide starts about 3/4 of an inch from the edge of the screen and can be also adjusted in about an inch.

Both can be adjusted in either direction.

This seems like normal behavior to me, although it might be nice if there was a negative as well as positive adjustment, or maybe not.

As an aside, I have not experienced the wrong page problems, or the bookmark problems, and my Mini has not crashed or frozen since the 2.3.1 update. Used to crash and/or freeze totally (had to reset) at least once a week.

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2012, 11:00 AM   #240
DNSB
Bibliophagist
DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DNSB ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DNSB's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,337
Karma: 6272177
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Device: Kobo Aura HD, Glo, Nexus 7 HD, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
I put both books on Kobo Mini.
Margins on both books can be changed by the same amount as far as I can determine.
Toast_narrow starts (smallest margin setting on Kobo) almost at the edge of screen and can be adjusted in about an inch.
Toast_wide starts about 3/4 of an inch from the edge of the screen and can be also adjusted in about an inch.

Both can be adjusted in either direction.

This seems like normal behavior to me, although it might be nice if there was a negative as well as positive adjustment, or maybe not.

As an aside, I have not experienced the wrong page problems, or the bookmark problems, and my Mini has not crashed or frozen since the 2.3.1 update. Used to crash and/or freeze totally (had to reset) at least once a week.

Helen
Sounds as if you are getting the results I expected. You can adjust the Kobo's margin but the margins set in the epub are still in effect so Toast-wide has wider margins than Toast-narrow at the same margin slider settings.

On my Glo measuring from the left edge of the screen to the H in "Highly flammable.", I got the following results.

Margin slider fully to the left:
Toast-narrow has a 2mm margin
Toast-wide has a 17mm margin

Margin slider fully to the right:
Toast-narrow has a 16mm margin
Toast-wide has a 31mm wide margin

This is using the font size my tired old eyes find comfortable. At the lowest font size settings, the margins on Toast-wide go from 6mm to 20mm which is about the same 14mm change.

The bug in 2.3.1 that I found annoying was the once in a while switch to the smallest font size when paging to a new chapter which seems be one of those bugs that hit only a few people. 2.3.2 hasn't shown that behaviour as yet. There are still some nits such as the TOC issues but overall, I'm quite happy with my Glo.

Regards,
David
DNSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Touch Firmware 2.1.1 and Kobo Desktop tkavan Kobo Reader 8 09-07-2012 10:50 PM
Touch Kobo Touch Firmware 1.9.12 MDK Kobo Reader 172 02-15-2012 03:56 AM
Touch Kobo Touch Firmware 1.9.14 MDK Kobo Reader 190 12-23-2011 01:12 PM
Touch Kobo Touch Firmware 1.9.6 MDK Kobo Reader 84 07-20-2011 07:15 PM
kobo firmware The Terminator Kobo Reader 1 12-13-2010 07:26 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:59 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.