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Old 12-30-2010, 03:37 PM   #1
osnova
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Repeat of the "1984" deletion case?

A Kindler posted the following review on Amazon for the new edition of the NIV Bible,
I purchased the older NIV version and had to exchange my Kindle out. Went to download the old version again and could not. The only similar version was this one. Amazon DID refund the old one and gave me a 6 dollar Kindle editions credit....which I could not use to help fund the purchase of this due to it being distributed by Zondervan eBooks.

That is why I gave a lower rating than I normally would. I felt it was just wrong how this recent update was handled. I hope I don't have to repurchase this again next year and have to lose ALL my notes and highlights!

As for the NIV, it's good. Just beware when dealing with reference texts on the Amazon Kindle.
My take:

If this is indeed how it happened, it is troubling. I can only assume that this was Zondervan's decision because Amazon should have learned their lesson after deleting 1984 and other Orwell's books from customers' Kindles in 2009. I do understand that this is somewhat different (deleting from the Kindle versus deleting from the customer's archive on Amazon's server).

I predict that this (mis)conduct will end up undermining their position that electronic books are licensed, not sold. Over time the courts will accord the electrons the same property rights as the molecules invalidating "licenses" to the contrary.

Last edited by osnova; 12-30-2010 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:52 PM   #2
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I've just found out that we had a similar report from gorkon about the deletion of the older edition of NIV here on mobileread.com.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:13 PM   #3
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Sometimes the publisher pulls a version due to errors and formatting problems. I have received emails when this happened and been able to chose between the older version with issues or the new version. Mor elikely then not the Publisher screwed up.

I would not say that this is similar to the 1984 mess because there is an updated version of the book available. I would call the Publisher and complain to them about the problem and see if they will give you a copy of the new version.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osnova View Post
A Kindler posted the following review on Amazon for the new edition of the NIV Bible,
I purchased the older NIV version and had to exchange my Kindle out. Went to download the old version again and could not. The only similar version was this one. Amazon DID refund the old one and gave me a 6 dollar Kindle editions credit....which I could not use to help fund the purchase of this due to it being distributed by Zondervan eBooks.

That is why I gave a lower rating than I normally would. I felt it was just wrong how this recent update was handled. I hope I don't have to repurchase this again next year and have to lose ALL my notes and highlights!

As for the NIV, it's good. Just beware when dealing with reference texts on the Amazon Kindle.
My take:

If this is indeed how it happened, it is troubling. I can only assume that this was Zondervan's decision because Amazon should have learned their lesson after deleting 1984 and other Orwell's books from customers' Kindles in 2009. I do understand that this is somewhat different (deleting from the Kindle versus deleting from the customer's archive on Amazon's server).

I predict that this (mis)conduct will end up undermining their position that electronic books are licensed, not sold. Over time the courts will accord the electrons the same property rights as the molecules invalidating "licenses" to the contrary.
I saw that same review because i bought this bible just yesterday. now i need to find a good KJV one because thats what my pastor reads from...
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfCrash View Post
Sometimes the publisher pulls a version due to errors and formatting problems. I have received emails when this happened and been able to chose between the older version with issues or the new version. Mor elikely then not the Publisher screwed up.

I would not say that this is similar to the 1984 mess because there is an updated version of the book available. I would call the Publisher and complain to them about the problem and see if they will give you a copy of the new version.
I disagree. It's not an updated Kindle version due to some technical issue or typos (I update my publications all the time because of those). It's a completely different revised edition of the Bible. They chose to call it the same name NIV; however, it's a "new" revision of the translation. The one they deleted was 1984 NIV (Orwellian parallel?). The new one is 2010/11 NIV. Because of the wild success of 1984 NIV, Zondervan wants to position 2010/11 NIV as a complete replacement of 1984 NIV and 2005 TNIV (people and churches that are NIV-"based" would have to upgrade).

However, for various reasons some folks would like to keep the 1984 edition (to compare between the two, the "tradition" of using the 1984 text, because they disagree with the revisions, for historical reasons, etc.). An analogy would be if Lockman Foundation deleted people's 1977 NASB and replaced it with 1995 NASB. In the realm of Bible translations, these things are very important.

Last edited by osnova; 12-30-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3bayjunkie View Post
now i need to find a good KJV one because thats what my pastor reads from...
Look no further than my OSNOVA edition of KJV. It's currently the best KJV for the Kindle.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:54 PM   #7
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Look no further than my OSNOVA edition of KJV. It's currently the best KJV for the Kindle.
Do you do a version with the Apocrypha?
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:07 PM   #8
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This is email I got from Amazon about "updated version" of a Bible. It's a different situation that I think is causing some confusion here.



Greetings from Amazon.com.

We're writing about your past Kindle purchase of The Holy Bible: HCSB Digital Text Edition by B&H Publishing Group. The version you received contained some errors that have been corrected.

An updated version of The Holy Bible: HCSB Digital Text Edition (ASIN:B0045U9UES) is now available. It’s important to note that when we send you the updated version, you will no longer be able to view any highlights, bookmarks, and notes made in your current version and your furthest reading location will be lost.

If you wish to receive the updated version, please reply to this email with the word “Yes” in the first line of your response. Within 2 hours of receiving the e-mail any device that has the title currently downloaded will be updated automatically if the wireless is on.

You can find more information about Kindle related topics at our Kindle support site below.
http://www.amazon.com/kindlesupport

We apologize for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your business with Amazon.


Sincerely,
Customer Service Department
Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:19 PM   #9
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Do you do a version with the Apocrypha?
This is on my to-do list. It may take a long time because I do not rush with such things.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:20 PM   #10
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It sounds like the issue is with the Publisher. I would contact them and complain
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:28 PM   #11
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It sounds like the issue is with the Publisher.
You are right. I don't have the standing to complain though because my 1984 NIV is still safe on my Kindle DX and PC (they did not remove it from the devices themselves, only from the customer archives). I am going to copy the file to a bunch of places now to keep it from "disappearing."

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Old 12-30-2010, 07:32 PM   #12
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You are right. I don't have the standing to complain though because my 1984 NIV is still safe on my Kindle DX and PC (they did not remove it from the devices themselves, only from the customer archives).
Which in and of itself tells you that it is not like the 1984 case.

There is enough Kindle bashing without providing folks false information which is what the thread title does.

The publisher, not Amazon, removed books from the site, hence the archive. The book is still on your device, desktop, and K4PC. Comparing it to the Orwell debacle is misleading.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:41 PM   #13
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ProfCrash, please reread my first post. There is no Kindle-bashing. I am the first Kindle promoter out there. Your accusation that I gave false/misleading information is unwarranted.

The analogy to the 2009 Orwellian case could be seen here because the seller (whether Amazon or Zondervan) used the book "licensing-not-a-sale" argument to deprive the customer of the content that the customer has bought.

I have raised a valid and timely topic about the property rights to the digital goods, especially given the recent Supreme Court decision.

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Old 12-30-2010, 07:51 PM   #14
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I have a kindle book now that is no longer available to purchase, I guess they made a mistake in releasing it. That happened months ago - Katherine, by Anya Seton. With 1984 the books were removed by Amazon from actual kindles; this is very different from making it no longer available.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:55 PM   #15
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Pushka, I agree that "unpublishing" books is different (I've done it myself). Amazon/Publishers are in their rights to do so. This is not what happened here.

Amazon's Kindle "system" includes off-Kindle storage of the books you have purchased. This off-Kindle storage is supposed to be a permanent (at least for as long Amazon exists) storage of all the products that you have purchased. It is a huge advantage of the Kindle experience (that and its seamless connectivity with the Amazon store). For example, I recently lost my Kindle 3 and was able to restore all the books I purchased when I bought a new Kindle 3.

I argue that removing books from that storage is similar to removing books from your physical device. In this instance, the decision to remove was most likely made by Zondervan but the implementation (the actual deletion from Amazon servers) was probably done by Amazon.

Last edited by osnova; 12-30-2010 at 08:04 PM.
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