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Old 01-30-2013, 02:05 PM   #616
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But it is necessary to load them with iTunes, which is what ProfCrash was discussing, and said so in the post you responded to.
I don't think this was made clear enough, which is why I think a clarification was useful.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:12 PM   #617
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By the way, Paul, I've just tried this on my Windows PC. I opened a Calibre folder in TotalCommander, picked up an EPUB file with the mouse and transferred it to the iTunes window, letting it drop there. It safely landed in the "Books" section.

So, I'm not sure our fellow poster's allegation is even true for iTunes. The EPUB file I dragged and dropped had never been "saved to disk" in Calibre. It's just an ordinary, converted EPUB file from a random Calibre folder.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:26 PM   #618
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By the way, Paul, I've just tried this on my Windows PC. I opened a Calibre folder in TotalCommander, picked up an EPUB file with the mouse and transferred it to the iTunes window, letting it drop there. It safely landed in the "Books" section.
Why on earth would you do that???? You don't even *like* iBooks, which is where the book will end up if you just drop it in the Books section. No wonder you think iTunes is messed up, if this is the only way you think it manages ebooks.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:31 PM   #619
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kyteflyer, I never said I thought that was the only way or that it related to Marvin. I was responding to Paul's allegation that (paraphrasing) "saving books to disk in Calibre is necessary in order to load them with iTunes" (see Paul's exact quote above). I've just demonstrated this is not true for iBooks, and those of you who use iTunes to manage your iPads might want to check what happens when you drag & drop an EPUB file from a Calibre folder over, say, Marvin's files window. My guess is it will be accepted normally.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:41 PM   #620
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I think here is where some of the confusion may lye...(pun intended)

my quote - emphasis added
Quote:
Just wondering - are you trying to drag n drop from the Calibre database window?? I didn't think it would do that. Even if it does you wouldn't necessarily be getting the most current version if metadata/covers etc unless you "save to disk" first. If you right click on the title in Calibre you can select "open in folder" (or something like it) then drag from there to iTunes.

So...my point was that:
1) Dragging the ePub from the Calibre window doesn't work

2) If you want to get the most current metadata/covers - that you may have changed/updated within Calibre - you need to save to disk first

3) From the Calibre window right click and select "open in folder" to open a folder that you can drag-n-drop to iTunes

My apologies for not being clearer.

Can we move on now?
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM   #621
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1) Dragging the ePub from the Calibre window doesn't work
That's right.

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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
2) If you want to get the most current metadata/covers - that you may have changed/updated within Calibre - you need to save to disk first
Not true! This is exactly my point. Calibre auto-saves everything to disk anyway: inside its Calibre folders. So that, all you need to have is a bookmark in your Explorer or Finder or TotalCommander that will switch you over to Calibre's Books folder. You will see all your writers there, ordered alphabetically inside Calibre folders. Inside each writer's folder, each book gets a separate folder. All very handy. And all these EPUB files can be directly loaded into Marvin.

Those who prefer to be slow, will mess around with iTunes. Those who wish to lose no time, let Dropbox or SugarSync or other cloud software handle the transfer of those EPUBs to the iPad automatically, without the user having to do anything at all on the computer running Calibre. And there's also the direct OPDS access from Marvin, or emailing the file to yourself (still quicker than iTunes, in my experience.)

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Can we move on now?
I'm all for that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:17 PM   #622
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Not true! This is exactly my point. Calibre auto-saves everything to disk anyway: inside its Calibre folders. So that, all you need to have is a bookmark in your Explorer or Finder or TotalCommander that will switch you over to Calibre's Books folder. You will see all your writers there, ordered alphabetically inside Calibre folders. Inside each writer's folder, each book gets a separate folder. All very handy. And all these EPUB files can be directly loaded into Marvin.
I was reading/posting a thread over in the Calibre section about this very topic. Kovid, the creator of Calibre stated very clearly that metadata and covers that are updated within Calibre are saved to the calibre library/folder as individual files (cover.jpg, metadata.opf) so you will see the updated information WITHIN Calibre....but they ARE NOT incorporated back into the ePub unless you take the extra step of "saving to disk"

Thus, if you simply drag the ePub file from the Calibre folder you MAY not be getting the most current version of the metadata/cover.

To ENSURE you have the most current data/cover you must perform a "save to disk", so that Calibre update's the ePub file.

If you know for a fact that Calibre has not updated or changed the metadata and/or cover image, then no save to disk is required.


As far as iTunes - or whatever service people use to transfer ebooks - I really don't care what people use. If it gets the job done, and THEY like it, it doesn't matter one bit what I prefer. If they want my opinion about what I think is the best way, then I will tell them. I may even throw out a recommendation unsolicited...but it certainly isn't worth anyone's time and effort to get in an argument over it.

Can't we just all hold hands and get along??
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:36 PM   #623
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To ENSURE you have the most current data/cover you must perform a "save to disk", so that Calibre updates the ePub file.
OK. I haven't seen this becoming an issue in practical use. It only concerns metadata and the cover picture (not the book text), and I set those before converting anything to EPUB.

More pertinently for Marvin, version 1.2 now includes a metadata editor, so that even if the metadata or the cover happen to be incorrect after you load a book in Marvin, it's easy to fix those. In fact, one of the nicest new features in Marvin 1.2 is the ability to attach a random cover picture from your iPad's photo library to an EPUB that lacks it. Which is the case for most Project Gutenberg releases. So I just open the Google Images search engine, input the book title there, save the thumbnail of the book cover of an original paper edition in the iPad's photo library, and then add the cover to the book in Marvin. It makes Marvin's Library look fantastic!

Last edited by Faterson; 01-30-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:40 PM   #624
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This is a very simple process to test.

1) load a new epub into Calibre
2) edit the metadata of that epub within Calibre by changing the cover image
3) right click on the epub from within Calibre and select "open containing folder"

you will see (at least) three files: cover.jpg, metadata.opf, and ___.epub (plus any other formats you may have converted to)

4) open the cover.jpg. It will be the new cover that you just changed.
5) drag the epub to whichever viewer you wish (I used ePubreader in firefox because it was easy)
6) you will see the ORIGINAL cover

7) go back to Calibre and "save to disk"
8) again drag the epub to your favorite viewer...you will see the new cover.


I just did this and...voila!
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:44 PM   #625
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I too am salivating for Marvin...I should be getting my new iPad in a couple of days...that will replace my iPad 1, so I can take advantage of all that Marvin has to offer. Just remember, that not everyone uses Marvin (even though they should!! ) so they may need, or want, to use other processes to transfer books....that's OK.

Cheers!
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:48 PM   #626
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I should be getting my new iPad in a couple of days...that will replace my iPad 1, so I can take advantage of all that Marvin has to offer.
Marvin operates the same way on all iPads. So the only (but huge!) advantage you'll be getting is much sharper picture, much crisper fonts on your new Retina iPad.

PS: You're definitely correct about the metadata and covers... I had misread what you were saying... and because I rarely edit metadata or covers for finished EPUBs in Calibre, the issue never came up for me in practical use.

Last edited by Faterson; 01-30-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:45 PM   #627
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Duplicate message here.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:23 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
OK. I haven't seen this becoming an issue in practical use. It only concerns metadata and the cover picture (not the book text), and I set those before converting anything to EPUB.

More pertinently for Marvin, version 1.2 now includes a metadata editor, so that even if the metadata or the cover happen to be incorrect after you load a book in Marvin, it's easy to fix those. In fact, one of the nicest new features in Marvin 1.2 is the ability to attach a random cover picture from your iPad's photo library to an EPUB that lacks it. Which is the case for most Project Gutenberg releases. So I just open the Google Images search engine, input the book title there, save the thumbnail of the book cover of an original paper edition in the iPad's photo library, and then add the cover to the book in Marvin. It makes Marvin's Library look fantastic!
Do you know if these edits are saved into the Epub or if the image/metadata is only incorporated when viewing the Epub within your Marvin library?

Also, on a related note, I presume that any changes you make to Epubs in your library in Marvin can be sync'd back to the cloud easily?
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:14 PM   #629
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By the way, Paul, I've just tried this on my Windows PC. I opened a Calibre folder in TotalCommander, picked up an EPUB file with the mouse and transferred it to the iTunes window, letting it drop there. It safely landed in the "Books" section.

So, I'm not sure our fellow poster's allegation is even true for iTunes. The EPUB file I dragged and dropped had never been "saved to disk" in Calibre. It's just an ordinary, converted EPUB file from a random Calibre folder.
Right, but only files from a single folder.
Using the app file transfer window you cannot add a directory structure, only files. As calibre stores each book in a separate directory, if you want to add your entire calibre library, you need to either visit each directory and add each book manually, or save to disk from calibre to put all the files in one directory, then you can add them all in one go. The latter is clearly the better option.
As you don't use iTunes, perhaps you should accept that people who do use it might have a better idea about what is required.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:59 PM   #630
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Do you know if these edits are saved into the Epub or if the image/metadata is only incorporated when viewing the Epub within your Marvin library?

Also, on a related note, I presume that any changes you make to Epubs in your library in Marvin can be sync'd back to the cloud easily?
Nope, Marvin isn't an EPUB editor. It doesn't touch your EPUB files, but can change the metadata and cover picture in Marvin's internal database and Library.

It's similar to making bookmarks, highlights and annotations in the books you read in Marvin -- the EPUBs themselves aren't touched. However -- and this is Marvin's no. 1 feature for me, and what I find its main competitive advantage, because no other e-reader offers it -- you can easily export your bookmarks/highlights/annotations, as well as import/restore them at any later time. (You or any other Marvin user.) For example, I'm currently helping a writer to proofread his book. I can just send him my MRV file with all the typos highlighted, including my comments, and he (on another continent) can just load that file in his own Marvin on his own iPad, and see my corrections and comments right inside the text of his book. What other e-reader -- iOS or otherwise -- can do this? None, as far as I'm aware.

I confess I would see little use myself in an ability to export metadata and the cover picture as well -- cooperation on Calibre's part would likely be required for this to work.

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save to disk from calibre to put all the files in one directory, then you can add them all in one go [...] is clearly the better option.
It's still a lot slower than some of the other alternative options. For example: even if you expressly wished to "save to disk" from Calibre (because of potential changes to the metadata and cover picture), then saving to that particular location of the disk that is being monitored by cloud software such as Dropbox or SugarSync, saves you the extra manual step of having to drag those files to the iTunes window (and a very specific, deeply buried subsection of it that you first need to locate and open with many mouse clicks), plus later synchronizing iTunes with the iPad. I mean, why perform all those manual steps when they can be performed automatically by cloud software? As to Dropbox, its integration directly within Marvin means you can load dozens of books from Dropbox to Marvin in one go, if you wish. Finally, is it even possible to argue that using the iTunes transfer can be faster than using the direct OPDS catalogue access? Such a supposition seems rather far-fetched.

Another advantage of the cloud software transfer method not mentioned so far is that you do not need to have your main computer and your handheld device running at the same time. To perform an iTunes sync, you must be running both devices simultaneously, which can be inconvenient. In contrast, you can just, literally, "drop" your books into Dropbox, resting assured you will find them on your iPad (and all other devices!) whenever you switch it on at a later time.

Further, making the same book available on both your iPad, and your iPhone (and possibly also iPad mini!), will require not only the extra manual step(s) mentioned above, but the duplicate or triplicate amount of those manual steps if you insist on using iTunes transfer. Even now, with no iPhone version of Marvin available so far, I'm saving time with the cloud software book transfer method, because I use Marvin on 2 iPads (iPad 3, iPad 1), and if I were to use iTunes transfer, I'd have to perform all the (unnecessary) manual steps required for it, twice instead of just once.

Please understand I'm not trying to "convert" anyone to non-iTunes book transfer methods. I'm simply describing the alternatives and their benefits compared to the (as I see it) obsolete iTunes transfer method. If that sometimes comes across as impolite, I'm sorry -- I'm extremely busy and just lack the time to couch my posts in 100% politically correct, ultra-polite vocabulary. There's no intention to be rude, however.
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