Maintaining double spacing question

[ralphiedee]

I have an ebook to do from a word doc, the doc has certain spacing lines within paragraphs ( 2 lines) and another spacing in between paragraphs ( 4 lines)

when the doc is converted to html the spacing remains but after looking at the doc in Sigil the spacing does not. I can add the spacing manually but this is a task as the book is pretty long. Is there a way to do this automatically?

R

[JSWolf]

It is very easy to redo the poor spacing using CSS if that is what you want. But to be honest, that's a very poor format. Too much space and it's going to be hard to read.

The best formatting that works for most people is single space in the paragraphs and no extra space between paragraphs except for section breaks or other things that need to be offset. Also, an indent of 1.2em works very well without being too big.

Trust me, when I say that the format you are trying to duplicate is very poor. If this is something a client is wanting, please tell this client that it is not going to be a good read.

[dwig]

Originally Posted by ralphiedee

I have an ebook to do from a word doc, the doc has certain spacing lines within paragraphs ( 2 lines) and another spacing in between paragraphs ( 4 lines)...

An ebook should never be formatted this way. You should always use only single spacing between lines an a paragraph and between paragraphs.

When you need wider gaps, you adjust it with changes in the CSS. For example, to add additional space between paragraphs you could set the "margin-top" for the <P> tag to something like 1em instead of 0em.

I also recommend that you seriously review your formatting decision. The opinion that JSWolf expressed is just an opinion, not a rule, but it is an opinion held by the majority of readers and one I agree with. A minority like an extra space between paragraphs but almost nobody likes extra space between lines within a paragraph. The old double-spacing style is antique typewriter formatting, like the obsolete style of placing two spaces after a period, and often required in typewritten documents so that a reviewer/editor/teacher can more easily write in edits, corrections, and/or comments. eBooks should be formatted more in the style of printed books rather than typewritten documents.

[JSWolf]

What is a fact though is that for a lot of people, that paragraph space will disrupt reading as you go from words to space back to words. The line space breaks concentration and the eye has to skip it to then move on to the next paragraph.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by dwig

An ebook should never be formatted this way. You should always use only single spacing between lines an a paragraph and between paragraphs.

I also recommend that you seriously review your formatting decision. The opinion that JSWolf expressed is just an opinion, not a rule, but it is an opinion held by the majority of readers and one I agree with. A minority like an extra space between paragraphs but almost nobody likes extra space between lines within a paragraph. The old double-spacing style is antique typewriter formatting, like the obsolete style of placing two spaces after a period, and often required in typewritten documents so that a reviewer/editor/teacher can more easily write in edits, corrections, and/or comments. eBooks should be formatted more in the style of printed books rather than typewritten documents.

Not to mention, if this is the same book that you're doing for a paying client--for which you've previously asked for help--the likelihood that they'll put this on B&N and Amazon is very high. Or even iBooks. The likelihood that your client will get either a takedown notice or a quality review notice on Amazon is extremely high, as they take a very dim view of double-spaced lines as giant space-wasters. It's also got a high percentage chance of reader returns and complaints. If you do it manually, as you've implied you will, presumably with returns, I can guarantee it will get a takedown. I further doubt it would pass Apple's QA on intake.

Seriously: no professional book-maker would make a book like this. It's at odds with Amazon's guidelines, B&N's guidelines and Apple's guidelines. You are asking for trouble, and if you have a paying client, they are relying upon your expertise to preclude the possibility of this type of inadequate quality issue. If you are doing this for pay, you need to advise your client as to what an extraordinarily bad choice this would be. I won't accept a book for which the client insists on double-spaced lines (for any duration--obviously, for a short bit, like something intended to represent a sign, or a clipping, whatever, sure) for production. Just won't do it. It's bad technique and bad book-making, and likely to cause the client commercial and reader usability issues down the road.

Hitch

[cybmole]

why not use line-height in css?

its default value in most books seems to be 1.2 em but I've seen other values & percentages in published books - like 1.3 , 1.5 ,150%... there's much scope IN-BETWEEN single & double. Maybe a compromise can be found that way

[mrmikel]

Perhaps the customer needs a little show and tell...if all they see are tablets, yet intend to sell to e-readers and smartphones too, maybe a demo on both could be convincing.

[theducks]

Cybemole beat me

Paragraph spacing, I use:
margin-top: 0.5em ; /*I like a bit of space between paragraphs */
margin-top: 0 ; /* for the same space as between the lines */

Line spacing (those within a paragraph), use:
line-height: 1.2 ; /*more normal */
line-height: 2.2 ; /*double spaced in typewriter speak*/
line-height: 1.0 ; /*crammed together */

use <br /> if you want to force the next onto a newline.
Never use repeat spaces or multiple returns (even multiple <br />) as duplicates commonly get ignored.


2 bottom lines
1) Use margins, padding, line-height to control line and paragraph spacinga

2)Don't charge for the work until you can do professional level work.
(Learning for Cookies and Milk is fine ) (Ducks still is in this class, and will always be. I get more Chocolate this way )

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by cybmole

why not use line-height in css?

Because it should be dependent on font family and size, and that's best left for the reader (human and device) to decide, rather than force it in the ebook.

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Because it should be dependent on font family and size, and that's best left for the reader (human and device) to decide, rather than force it in the ebook.

Hmm - I'm sure I've seen line heights set explicitly in some retail epubs - maybe different publishers have different views on this ?

[Jellby]

I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice

[theducks]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice

don't line-height's scale properly?
There are no units, so it seems to be tied to the current styling.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice

Jellby:

Given that those of us who make "retail" epubs (cough, cough) are stuck with not controlling what the reader eventually sees, what would you suggest as an ideal compromise for the usual line-height settings? I'm genuinely asking. I'm always interested in your CSS. ;-)

Hitch

[Jellby]

I'm not saying that you can't use line-height, and sometimes you are forced to do it (in dropcaps, for instance). What I meant is that you shouldn't set line-height for the main text, just like you shouldn't set the main font (or embed it).

I still dream of a future reader that would let the user set the font, size, margins and line-height. I'm almost there, but not yet, maybe one of the newer Pocketbooks?

[cybmole]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I still dream of a future reader that would let the user set the font, size, margins and line-height. I'm almost there, but not yet, maybe one of the newer Pocketbooks?

kindle does at least 2 of those already ?