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Old 12-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #31
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Oh, glob, no.

I hope this is a joke or something. That, or AMD can swoop in and keep that ship afloat.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:28 PM   #32
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I'm an enthusiast, but I really don't think this is a massive deal.
It's a massive deal because the flexibility of computers is a massive deal. As it stands today, people can pretty much get what they want. By soldering a processor onto a mainboard, you are limiting the options available because it become too uneconomical to produce every combination. Think of it this way: let's say that you have a vendor producing 9 different mainboards and another vendor producing 9 different processors. You have 18 different products. With a soldered CPU, you would need 81 different products. With that many products, the less popular options would be trimmed off. Some people's needs would go unmet. (Incidentally, that is also a huge underestimate since both Intel and mainboard manufacturers produce many more models than that. I simply didn't feel like filtering out duplicate or obsolete models so I just used conservative numbers.)
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:04 PM   #33
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It's a massive deal because the flexibility of computers is a massive deal.
Here's the thing: You very seldom see high end cpu's on low end boards, or low end cpus on high end boards (you see a lot of high end on medium, because premium or cutting edge chipsets are for people who throw money around and don't care anyway). You also don't really see many people, even gamers and enthusiasts who swap CPU or even upgrade it. It's not like you have any vendor portability or even socket's that last more than a year or two (Tho I guess 1155 has been around quite a while now). Yes it will hurt repairs and such, but you're almost certain to see a drop in price at the same time. That said, it's been a while since I've seen real hardware failure outside of dead HDD's or dodgy dimms.

There's always a few different chipsets, which give rise to many mobo manufacturers spamming out subtly different products - how much difference do they make to the consumer? More annoying than anything else. The chipset gives you the majority of the features people want, while some extra on-board packages add flavour. Given a year, these features are often a little the worse for wear and will often end up gimping your new CPU anyway.

Now, given that most of todays cpu's are essentially the same die with different features fused off and limits set, it's not exactly a huge problem to expand product ranges to fill up the demand of the mobo makers with cpus that match demand. The mobo guys will be the ones finding the sweet spot, rather than just spamming the market. Better thermal integration would also be interesting and beneficial. More conservative production runs, market matched costing and less capital locked up in potentially duff products should make the whole chain happier.

A good example of the market driven design is in the AMD E-350/450 stuff. No one cries that they cant put an AM3 cpu onto those boards, no one wants to put an E350 onto their mid range board. Yet they were great little dev boxes/htpc - at a *really* solid price.

At the end of the day : few people upgrade cpus, fewer downgrade and sockets are single vendor and often short lived (outside of the mainstream desktop).

As I said, if it were slots, memory or storage, I'd be up in arms too, as those are things that people do change and upgrade often. But it's not. It's also not the end of Intels socket history, and just maybe it'll have been proven quite reasonable.

Last edited by Serpentine; 12-04-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:11 PM   #34
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I don't think this will make a huge difference.
I don't either.

According to the rumor, the Haswell family, due out next year, still has sockets.

Then the Broadwell family, due out in 2014, is socketless.

Then the Skylake family, due out in 2015, has sockets.

But that doesn't mean all new Intel processors released in 2014 would be socketless, because, historically, there is overlap where new models from the last generation are still appearing after the introduction of the next generation.

One way to interpret the rumor is that when, with Broadwell, Intel next reduces the distance between transistors on its chips -- a big factor in power consumption -- they will throw those first on mobile devices. The next year, those fabrication plants start producing socketed 14 nm desktop chips AKA Skylake.

Will the Intel tick-tock continue forever? No. Nothing does.

Anyone miss the days when you could build a color TV from parts, as my father did, and then replace individual tubes or capacitors based on what your oscilloscope told you? Didn't think so. One day the whole computer -- motherboard, SSD, and power supply -- may be reduced to a single chip. Then we'll be onto building something else.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:16 PM   #35
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Perhaps it's a massive deal to a tiny number of people.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:37 PM   #36
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Perhaps it's a massive deal to a tiny number of people.
Proportionally speaking, definitely tiny. Yet there are many businesses out there who sell computer components to individuals. There are many businesses out there who build systems for their customers. There are many businesses out there who repair systems. These people, and their customers, are going to have a very different view of the world than those who buy a Dell and throw out their computer once something goes wrong out of warranty (or the service contract has expired).
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:43 PM   #37
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You also don't really see many people, even gamers and enthusiasts who swap CPU or even upgrade it.
*slowly raises hand* I do. I have built systems for my kids on a budget, then when money loosened up I upgraded the cpu. Maybe a year later. Quite often I will buy the best mobo I can afford, skimp on other things, upgrade as I can.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:21 PM   #38
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I have built systems for my kids on a budget, then when money loosened up I upgraded the cpu.
Even though I haven't ever upgraded a CPU, I like that I could do it. If the rumor is true, than I would be more likely to upgrade. I could, maybe in 2015, go from the base model Ivy Bridge I'm now using to a then-clearance near-top-of-the-line Ivy Bridge, rather than than to build a new box. My wife's Sandy Bridge PC could also be updated in this scenario.

My objection is to jumping on Intel on the basis of a rumor that, even if true, is subject to multiple interpretations. One interpretation is that declining desktop sales will mean that socketless devices like laptops get the newest and greatest CPU's first. If people are mostly buying mobile computers, that isn't Intel's fault.

The way to vote against this is to, when you need something more than a mobile reading device, build your own PC. You learn doing it. And, while it takes some research, it's easier to do than ever. And the parts are not as delicate as some might think. I've built maybe half a dozen over the years and, despite being a clumsy person, have never destroyed anything. On this issue, vote with your feet.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 12-05-2012 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:50 PM   #39
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My objection is to jumping on Intel on the basis of a rumor that, even if true, is subject to multiple interpretations.
On the other hand, voicing concern is one of the ways that Intel will know that their customers are displeased.

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The way to vote against this is to, when you need something more than a mobile reading device, build your own PC.
If you're the type of person who looks at the specifications while buying a PC, then building isn't much harder than buying pre-built systems. On the other hand, this route definitely isn't for people who buy based upon price, reviews, or (god forbid) style. Then again, I doubt those people are reading this thread.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:24 AM   #40
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My objection is to jumping on Intel on the basis of a rumor that, even if true, is subject to multiple interpretations. One interpretation is that declining desktop sales will mean that socketless devices like laptops get the newest and greatest CPU's first. If people are mostly buying mobile computers, that isn't Intel's fault.
Exactly.
Plus, the reports (and the folks "viewing with alarm") are assuming that *all* future CPUs are going to be soldered instead of that one specific family, which may be intended for gadgets, rather than general-purpose desktop PCs.

Let's see how it plays out, first.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:27 AM   #41
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Yet there are many businesses out there who sell computer components to individuals.
They already sell CPU+Mobo combos and barebones systems. They'll be fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BWinmill
There are many businesses out there who build systems for their customers.
Desktop sales are already declining. A slight reduction in the modularity of computers is the least of their worries.


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Originally Posted by BWinmill
There are many businesses out there who repair systems.
They're already repairing laptops and nforce mobos. They'll be fine.

The simple fact is that the world changes, and businesses -- large and small -- need to adapt.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:52 AM   #42
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On the other hand, voicing concern is one of the ways that Intel will know that their customers are displeased.



If you're the type of person who looks at the specifications while buying a PC, then building isn't much harder than buying pre-built systems.
I suppose "harder" is ambiguous in this context, but building a system is *lot* more work than buying a prebuilt system. Are you actually claiming it isn't?

Buying a prebuilt system means clicking a few boxes on a webpage.

Building a system means choosing all the parts of the system you want, including things like the case and the power supply, then sourcing these items (which may or may not come from the same source), then ordering them.

Once you get all the pieces, you do the actual assembly, which can go quickly if nothing goes wrong (and it's not your first time), or which can take a long time if it is your first time, or, as has happened to me, one of the parts you ordered is defective and you have to figure out which one it is based on the computer not working.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #43
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it's been a while since I've seen real hardware failure outside of dead HDD's or dodgy dimms.
You should try working for a school then. I've seen lots of bad RAM, lots of bad motherboards, hard drives and of course power supplies. I've only had maybe three bad CPUs.

I think they're trying to make it like TVs. Nobody fixes TVs anymore--you just throw out the old and buy new. That's what they want with computers because too many of us poor folks hang on to our computers for years. (I personally build my own and have a high(er)-end CPU in a cheaper motherboard.)
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:42 PM   #44
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:48 PM   #45
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You should try working for a school then. I've seen lots of bad RAM, lots of bad motherboards, hard drives and of course power supplies. I've only had maybe three bad CPUs.
That's pretty much what I said
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