Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Software > Sigil

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #1
ralphiedee
Zealot
ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.ralphiedee is no ebook tyro.
 
Posts: 103
Karma: 1370
Join Date: Mar 2012
Device: none
Maintaining double spacing question

I have an ebook to do from a word doc, the doc has certain spacing lines within paragraphs ( 2 lines) and another spacing in between paragraphs ( 4 lines)

when the doc is converted to html the spacing remains but after looking at the doc in Sigil the spacing does not. I can add the spacing manually but this is a task as the book is pretty long. Is there a way to do this automatically?

R
ralphiedee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 08:50 PM   #2
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,665
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
It is very easy to redo the poor spacing using CSS if that is what you want. But to be honest, that's a very poor format. Too much space and it's going to be hard to read.

The best formatting that works for most people is single space in the paragraphs and no extra space between paragraphs except for section breaks or other things that need to be offset. Also, an indent of 1.2em works very well without being too big.

Trust me, when I say that the format you are trying to duplicate is very poor. If this is something a client is wanting, please tell this client that it is not going to be a good read.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #3
dwig
Guru
dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.dwig ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
dwig's Avatar
 
Posts: 979
Karma: 1382338
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Paradise (Key West, FL)
Device: Current:Dell Venue 8 Pro, Kindle 3/WiFi - Retired:Clie UX50, T415, ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphiedee View Post
I have an ebook to do from a word doc, the doc has certain spacing lines within paragraphs ( 2 lines) and another spacing in between paragraphs ( 4 lines)...
An ebook should never be formatted this way. You should always use only single spacing between lines an a paragraph and between paragraphs.

When you need wider gaps, you adjust it with changes in the CSS. For example, to add additional space between paragraphs you could set the "margin-top" for the <P> tag to something like 1em instead of 0em.

I also recommend that you seriously review your formatting decision. The opinion that JSWolf expressed is just an opinion, not a rule, but it is an opinion held by the majority of readers and one I agree with. A minority like an extra space between paragraphs but almost nobody likes extra space between lines within a paragraph. The old double-spacing style is antique typewriter formatting, like the obsolete style of placing two spaces after a period, and often required in typewritten documents so that a reviewer/editor/teacher can more easily write in edits, corrections, and/or comments. eBooks should be formatted more in the style of printed books rather than typewritten documents.
dwig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #4
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,665
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
What is a fact though is that for a lot of people, that paragraph space will disrupt reading as you go from words to space back to words. The line space breaks concentration and the eye has to skip it to then move on to the next paragraph.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 03:48 AM   #5
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,496
Karma: 13518189
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwig View Post
An ebook should never be formatted this way. You should always use only single spacing between lines an a paragraph and between paragraphs.
Quote:
I also recommend that you seriously review your formatting decision. The opinion that JSWolf expressed is just an opinion, not a rule, but it is an opinion held by the majority of readers and one I agree with. A minority like an extra space between paragraphs but almost nobody likes extra space between lines within a paragraph. The old double-spacing style is antique typewriter formatting, like the obsolete style of placing two spaces after a period, and often required in typewritten documents so that a reviewer/editor/teacher can more easily write in edits, corrections, and/or comments. eBooks should be formatted more in the style of printed books rather than typewritten documents.
Not to mention, if this is the same book that you're doing for a paying client--for which you've previously asked for help--the likelihood that they'll put this on B&N and Amazon is very high. Or even iBooks. The likelihood that your client will get either a takedown notice or a quality review notice on Amazon is extremely high, as they take a very dim view of double-spaced lines as giant space-wasters. It's also got a high percentage chance of reader returns and complaints. If you do it manually, as you've implied you will, presumably with returns, I can guarantee it will get a takedown. I further doubt it would pass Apple's QA on intake.

Seriously: no professional book-maker would make a book like this. It's at odds with Amazon's guidelines, B&N's guidelines and Apple's guidelines. You are asking for trouble, and if you have a paying client, they are relying upon your expertise to preclude the possibility of this type of inadequate quality issue. If you are doing this for pay, you need to advise your client as to what an extraordinarily bad choice this would be. I won't accept a book for which the client insists on double-spaced lines (for any duration--obviously, for a short bit, like something intended to represent a sign, or a clipping, whatever, sure) for production. Just won't do it. It's bad technique and bad book-making, and likely to cause the client commercial and reader usability issues down the road.

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 06:52 AM   #6
cybmole
Wizard
cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,853
Karma: 1163098
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kobo aura HD, Kobo Arc, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 , Kindle for PC
why not use line-height in css?

its default value in most books seems to be 1.2 em but I've seen other values & percentages in published books - like 1.3 , 1.5 ,150%... there's much scope IN-BETWEEN single & double. Maybe a compromise can be found that way
cybmole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 07:48 AM   #7
mrmikel
Book Twiddler
mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrmikel ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,086
Karma: 1444487
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Oregon Coast
Device: PRS-300
Perhaps the customer needs a little show and tell...if all they see are tablets, yet intend to sell to e-readers and smartphones too, maybe a demo on both could be convincing.
mrmikel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 07:55 AM   #8
theducks
Grand Sorcerer
theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
theducks's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,846
Karma: 5654321
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: (The original) Silicon Valley, USA
Device: Galaxy Tab 2, Astak Pocket Pro, K4NT
Cybemole beat me

Paragraph spacing, I use:
margin-top: 0.5em ; /*I like a bit of space between paragraphs */
margin-top: 0 ; /* for the same space as between the lines */

Line spacing (those within a paragraph), use:
line-height: 1.2 ; /*more normal */
line-height: 2.2 ; /*double spaced in typewriter speak*/
line-height: 1.0 ; /*crammed together */

use <br /> if you want to force the next onto a newline.
Never use repeat spaces or multiple returns (even multiple <br />) as duplicates commonly get ignored.


2 bottom lines
1) Use margins, padding, line-height to control line and paragraph spacinga

2)Don't charge for the work until you can do professional level work.
(Learning for Cookies and Milk is fine ) (Ducks still is in this class, and will always be. I get more Chocolate this way )
theducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 12:33 PM   #9
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,193
Karma: 4800739
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
why not use line-height in css?
Because it should be dependent on font family and size, and that's best left for the reader (human and device) to decide, rather than force it in the ebook.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #10
cybmole
Wizard
cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,853
Karma: 1163098
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kobo aura HD, Kobo Arc, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 , Kindle for PC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
Because it should be dependent on font family and size, and that's best left for the reader (human and device) to decide, rather than force it in the ebook.
Hmm - I'm sure I've seen line heights set explicitly in some retail epubs - maybe different publishers have different views on this ?
cybmole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 02:38 PM   #11
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,193
Karma: 4800739
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #12
theducks
Grand Sorcerer
theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
theducks's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,846
Karma: 5654321
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: (The original) Silicon Valley, USA
Device: Galaxy Tab 2, Astak Pocket Pro, K4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice
don't line-height's scale properly?
There are no units, so it seems to be tied to the current styling.
theducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:23 PM   #13
Hitch
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hitch ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hitch's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,496
Karma: 13518189
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: Kindle2, iPad, KindleFire and NookColor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
I wouldn't take retail epubs as example of good practice
Jellby:

Given that those of us who make "retail" epubs (cough, cough) are stuck with not controlling what the reader eventually sees, what would you suggest as an ideal compromise for the usual line-height settings? I'm genuinely asking. I'm always interested in your CSS. ;-)

Hitch
Hitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 04:16 AM   #14
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,193
Karma: 4800739
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
I'm not saying that you can't use line-height, and sometimes you are forced to do it (in dropcaps, for instance). What I meant is that you shouldn't set line-height for the main text, just like you shouldn't set the main font (or embed it).

I still dream of a future reader that would let the user set the font, size, margins and line-height. I'm almost there, but not yet, maybe one of the newer Pocketbooks?
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:00 AM   #15
cybmole
Wizard
cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cybmole ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,853
Karma: 1163098
Join Date: Sep 2010
Device: Kobo aura HD, Kobo Arc, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9 , Kindle for PC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
I still dream of a future reader that would let the user set the font, size, margins and line-height. I'm almost there, but not yet, maybe one of the newer Pocketbooks?
kindle does at least 2 of those already ?
cybmole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
expression to remove double spacing between paragraphs ktj Calibre 4 07-26-2011 02:38 PM
Double Spacing Jafo Calibre 3 12-31-2010 10:47 AM
Calibre question regarding spacing Candy Farrell Calibre 3 08-17-2010 09:31 AM
ePub double spacing leebase Calibre 5 03-30-2010 03:42 PM
.pdf file and Double Spacing output holguinero PDF 0 10-05-2009 12:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.