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Old 11-23-2012, 10:51 AM   #76
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There was always more to Apple than just marketing. They gave the tools that allowed digital imaging to move into commercial photographic studios and other creative industries.

Now it seems they are a toy company to a large extent. Expensive toys.

Recently bought a new phone and just couldn't get my head around the cost of the IPhone. Ended up buying a small, bottom of the range Samsung android device. Never used android so thought it would be a good idea to get up to speed with it. The phone cost less than 20% what the iPhone would have cost me. It took me minutes to figure out. A most pleasant experience.

Watch out Apple
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Old 11-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #77
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There was always more to Apple than just marketing. They gave the tools that allowed digital imaging to move into commercial photographic studios and other creative industries.
I always thought Adobe Photoshop was responsible for that.
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:37 PM   #78
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I always thought Adobe Photoshop was responsible for that.
And Photoshop was developed for Apple hardware to provide creatives with the tools they needed... PCs were an also ran to the market...
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:18 PM   #79
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I saw Apple (the IIe) and then the MAC and Lisa and it appeared to me that they were nice and easy for people not used to computers to use, however to me they appeared to be like shiny little sports cars that could go really fast down a flat track, but were way too expensive. Also they had their hoods welded shut, and you had to have a license to put air in the tires.
I don't know about the Lisa and Mac, but I once wrote a small Apple II freeware program and can say that every system-controlled byte in the Apple II was documented and addressable from code. Except maybe for the Apple IIGS, all Apple II models are more open than Linux, mainly because of Linux having security features.

It's true that you had to buy an Apple II ROM license if you wanted to manufacture it, and since hardly any computer companies did, I suppose there is something to your air-in-the-tires complaint.

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Linux and the like seem to me to be for programmers, Geeks, and Trons.
I'm afraid this is true. The allegedly traumatizing user interface change going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 is small compared to getting used to Linux -- and the Linux GUI I have been getting used to -- KDE -- is actually supposed to be more Windows-like than the other popular Linux GUI, Gnome.

Of course, many eReaders (and GPS devices) run on Linux without most end users ever noticing.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:18 PM   #80
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When I decide it is time to get a new computer I might move from a PC to an Apple. They are more expensive, which annoys me, but they work and they tend to have fewer problems with viruses.
Do you really have virus problems with your PC?
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:29 PM   #81
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Do you really have virus problems with your PC?
The problem is that the virus programs themselves are a problem. They frequently annoy you by announcing updates and bragging about what they are doing. Plus there are problems with low initial prices and high renewal rates.

Windows 8 is secure by default, with an anti-virus that is unnoticeable. However, even that can cause people problems because users will feel a need to read various opinion articles pro and con on whether the free anti-virus is good (I believe it is). Even Microsoft's documentation on this question is confusing, perhaps because of anti-trust fears over what happens if they destroy the anti-virus industry.

Windows 7 also has free Microsoft anti-virus, but not by default, and Microsoft calls it a different name. To me, figuring this stuff out is part of my computer hobby, but to someone who wants an easy to use consumer product rather than a puzzle, Apple must be easier.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:23 PM   #82
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Of course, many eReaders (and GPS devices) run on Linux without most end users ever noticing.
Uh-huh.
Those are effectively limited-function gadgets, rather than computers, though. What OS they run is about as relevant as what OS a given TV set runs.

Modern smartphones and tablets are arguably closer to video game consoles than they are to full function computers and, given consumers voting their wallets, the trend is towards that particular business model.
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:21 AM   #83
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The problem is that the virus programs themselves are a problem. They frequently annoy you by announcing updates and bragging about what they are doing. Plus there are problems with low initial prices and high renewal rates.
Apple computers don't announce updates on software?

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Windows 8 is secure by default, with an anti-virus that is unnoticeable. However, even that can cause people problems because users will feel a need to read various opinion articles pro and con on whether the free anti-virus is good (I believe it is). Even Microsoft's documentation on this question is confusing, perhaps because of anti-trust fears over what happens if they destroy the anti-virus industry.

Windows 7 also has free Microsoft anti-virus, but not by default, and Microsoft calls it a different name. To me, figuring this stuff out is part of my computer hobby, but to someone who wants an easy to use consumer product rather than a puzzle, Apple must be easier.
Someone who wants an easy to use consumer product won't feel a need to read articles on AV programs.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:13 AM   #84
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The iPad Mini, larger iPhone, timing of the release of the lightning connector do not look to have Jobs' "fingerprints" on them.

Technology changes more quickly and unpredictably than anyone realizes, yes even than Jobs thought. If there was a 5 year product plan, Apple would be foolish to carry it out for more than 6 months. Any further than that and Apple would most likely find itself in the weeds.
Agree here. I don't think there would be an iPad Mini if Jobs were still alive and heading Apple. He crucified the 7" form factor, and coming out with a 7.9" one is not enough of a difference to plausibly save face. His tremendous ego would have stood in the way of their putting out a smaller iPad.

One also has to question whether Apple would have put out their half-baked maps app had Jobs been alive. He was such a perfectionist that he likely would have delayed it and stuck with Google Maps for one more cycle.

The question of Jobs' death on Apple is an interesting one. While he was the driving force behind their resurgence after the company hit the doldrums, it seemed he was also a driving force for the current costly patent wars, which may end up to be ultimately destructive to Apple, diverting money and time from R&D efforts. Maybe they should have spent less money on their court litigation and more on the development team that worked on the maps app!

As for technology changing so fast as to make many 5 year plans obsolete, that is so true. For example, the new IGZO displays (or other new display technologies yet to be developed) have the potential to throw a big wrench in many long-term plans.

--Pat
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:21 AM   #85
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The problem is that the virus programs themselves are a problem. They frequently annoy you by announcing updates and bragging about what they are doing. Plus there are problems with low initial prices and high renewal rates.
I haven't found this to be true. I use BitDefender (and have been using it for years). It does everything in the background except when it discovers a virus or a problem web page. I do not get notices of updates (I have it set to automatically update) and I think the pricing is reasonable. I pay $79 a year for the Antivirus and Firewall (the AV alone is cheaper), which gives me 3 licenses for 3 computers, or about $26 per computer per year, which I do not consider expensive.

BitDefender is always highly rated and they provide 24/7 telephone support for the couple of times over the years that I have had to call them.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:24 AM   #86
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. . . but to someone who wants an easy to use consumer product rather than a puzzle, Apple must be easier.
Why must Apple be easier? you still need to buy an AV program for the Apple computers and it must be installed and maintained. I think there is a mythology that surrounds Apple products that isn't warranted. Just like the canard that Macs don't need AV programs because they never get viruses, it seems to be a canard that Macs are easier to use than Windows computers.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:29 AM   #87
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For a long time, the variety of third-party software available for Windows was so much superior to what one could find for Apple. There are many valuable apps that I grew accustomed to that simply didn't have Apple equivalents, or any Apple counterparts were inferior -- for example MP3Gain and Lotus Organizer. Even in terms of Photoshop plugins, it seems like there was much more variety for the Windows platform than Apple, even though Photoshop was originally designed for the Mac.

The disparity may not be as great today, but it was pretty huge for a long time. And this is why I always stuck with Windows. As a result, I am vastly more familiar with it. For troubleshooting, customizing, and simply utilization, Windows is now second nature, and therefore it's just far easier and convenient not to have to learn a whole new system that doesn't offer any clear advantages. I suspect this is true with a lot of folks who grew up mostly on Windows. As such, Windows will always have a very huge user base for this reason alone.

--Pat

Last edited by PatNY; 11-24-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #88
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Same sort of thing here but using Norton 360.

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I haven't found this to be true. I use BitDefender (and have been using it for years). It does everything in the background except when it discovers a virus or a problem web page. I do not get notices of updates (I have it set to automatically update) and I think the pricing is reasonable. I pay $79 a year for the Antivirus and Firewall (the AV alone is cheaper), which gives me 3 licenses for 3 computers, or about $26 per computer per year, which I do not consider expensive.

BitDefender is always highly rated and they provide 24/7 telephone support for the couple of times over the years that I have had to call them.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:45 AM   #89
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.... it seems to be a canard that Macs are easier to use than Windows computers.
and I personally have never found that to be the case, ever from the beginning....I always thought the Mac UI was confusing and non-intuitive.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:38 AM   #90
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Why must Apple be easier?
Having extremely little Apple knowledge (or, more accurately, extremely dated Apple knowledge), I was apparently wrong. At least, I was wrong starting with Windows 8. Here's another stab of what might be the situation: Before Windows 8, if a Mac user and a Windows user both ignored the entire anti-virus arena, while using a little common sense (navigate away from obviously scuzzy web sites), the Mac user would apparently be OK, and the Windows user would be liable to infection. Starting with Windows 8, the playing ground is about the same: Built in default security is adequate for users running the current OS on both platforms, while anti-virus proponents are trying to convince users otherwise, and both Apple and Microsoft fail to make clear statements. Ironically, last year's biggest malware threat to the Mac was from phony anti-virus software.

Still, the Mac situation is a little nicer. If, at Thanksgiving dinner, someone mentioned liking Macintosh because one can ignore the whole anti-virus thing, most people would nod (even if you would be an exception). But if another someone mentioned liking their new PC because one can ignore the whole anti-virus thing, the turkey talk might not be that pleasant.

Quote:
Just like the canard that Macs don't need AV programs because they never get viruses . . .
Based on admittedly brief googling of the issue, Mac anti-virus software is similar, I think, to a dehumidifier on a PC motherboard. There are are special situations where you might need it (illegal downloader in the Mac case, tropical home without air conditioning in the latter), but most people do not need it. However figuring out whether you need it is confusing. And the anti-virus decision is more confusing because people around you will have strong varying opinions about it.

P.S. This is not a recommendation to upgrade the OS of an old Windows PC. I just wait until it dies and then buy one with the latest software.

P.P.S. If you tire of the internet, just get a used Apple II. No one will tell you you need anti-virus on one of those babies
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