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Old 01-05-2013, 11:51 PM   #511
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Hahahaha.

Your sole claim these last few pages is that apps developers are flocking to Android en masse because of the promise of the profitability it offers.

"You really haven't set forth logical reasons for why developers appear to be opting for Android over iOS. So it has to be money."

"And because developers are free to code for either A or B, the only reason they'd choose A over B is because of potential profit."

iOS app revenue is 400% greater than Android app revenue.
iOS ad revenue is 347% greater than Android app revenue.

Whither these amazing profits?
Again, where did I say "ad revenue?" And specifically current ad revenue???

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Old 01-05-2013, 11:55 PM   #512
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Again, where did I say "ad revenue?" And specifically current ad revenue???
"Even if these apps are free, they are generating revenue for developers with in-app advertising. So since it's harder to code for Android, there is no incentive to do so unless the promise of overall revenues were greater. "

Are you now saying you no longer claim that in-app advertising on Android apps holds "the promise of [greater] overall revenues"?
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:00 AM   #513
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The apps that suck on Android are usually straight ports from iOS where they don't follow the Android guidelines, but the iOS ones instead. Apps developed from the ground up for Android are as good as those developed for iOS. There are plenty of examples of great apps on Android.
Let's not kid ourselves, the overall quality Android apps is feeble compared to iOS.

A quick look at the 25 most popular free apps on Google Play reveals a huge number of iOS-first apps: Skype, Angry Birds, Instagram, Fruit Ninja, Shazam, Cut the Rope, Jetpack Joyride, Netflix, Temple Run, etc.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:34 AM   #514
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I am not the one who tried to pass off the report as being a total picture. LOL. Follow the bouncing ball!

And, fyi, Dolphin is the predominant browser on Android.

--Pat
And for your information I know that as I use both an Android-based smartphone and tablet as well as an iPad 4... the simple point I made concerned the point that you made about the data relating to Opera and not Dolphin which I pointed out could equally apply to it being Opera and not Safari (fyi the most popular browser under iOS) and that Opera was a cross-platform browser so could have some relevance to data across both platforms... as you nicely put it, follow the bouncing ball and read what people write not what you think they write and please lose the patronising attitude... and I'm still surprised that you haven't commented on the real flaws in the example given...
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:56 AM   #515
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"Even if these apps are free, they are generating revenue for developers with in-app advertising. So since it's harder to code for Android, there is no incentive to do so unless the promise of overall revenues were greater. "

Are you now saying you no longer claim that in-app advertising on Android apps holds "the promise of [greater] overall revenues"?
Right. I was saying that initial app purchases are NOT the only way that developers for Android make money. They also make it with in-app advertising as well as in-app purchases done at a future date. And a fact which these developers know just as well we all do is that Android has been growing far far faster than iOS, with no end in sight. So any app they do create today -- whether it has an upfront fee, an in-app purchase at a later date, OR instant revenue from in-app advertising -- would likely have much greater "potential profit" (my exact quote) in the future than an iOS app. I did NOT say android currently has greater mobile ad revenues, and I especially didn't say it had greater ad revenues on the Opera network, lol.

Please, read more carefully.

--Pat

Last edited by PatNY; 01-06-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:04 AM   #516
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And for your information I know that as I use both an Android-based smartphone and tablet as well as an iPad 4... the simple point I made concerned the point that you made about the data relating to Opera and not Dolphin which I pointed out could equally apply to it being Opera and not Safari (fyi the most popular browser under iOS) and that Opera was a cross-platform browser so could have some relevance to data across both platforms... as you nicely put it, follow the bouncing ball and read what people write not what you think they write and please lose the patronising attitude... and I'm still surprised that you haven't commented on the real flaws in the example given...
But that additional information is irrelevant. Once it's pointed out that the report excludes the MOST POPULAR browser on the Android platform, it has little applicability to the discussion. Your pointing out that it's missing yet more browsers as well only makes the report even more pointless. While funny, it added little relevance to the discussion, since it was already ascertained the report was missing a big chunk of essential data anyway.

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Old 01-06-2013, 01:12 AM   #517
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But that additional information is irrelevant. Once it's pointed out that the report excludes the MOST POPULAR browser on the Android platform, it has little applicability to the discussion. Your pointing out that it's missing yet more browsers as well only makes the report even more pointless. While funny, it added little relevance to the discussion, since it was already ascertained the report was missing a big chunk of essential data anyway.
Are you being wilfully obtuse?

These are not ads in the Opera browser, they are ads delivered via the Opera mobile advertising network. 80% of them appear in apps on all smartphone platforms.

This is typical of how PatNY argues. He glances cursorily at the relevant data without trying to understand it, identifies a lone element he thinks he can nitpick about while avoiding the substance of the debate (in this case, the word 'opera'), and then tries to spin it to support his false claim. There is no logic involved, no reasoning. Just knee-jerk reaction in defence of a preconceived conclusion.

Last edited by holymadness; 01-06-2013 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:28 AM   #518
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Right. I was saying that initial app purchases are NOT the only way that developers for Android make money. They also make it with in-app advertising as well as in-app purchases done at a future date. And a fact which these developers know just as well we all do is that Android has been growing far far faster than iOS, with no end in sight. So any app they do create today -- whether it has an upfront fee, an in-app purchase at a later date, OR instant revenue from in-app advertising -- would likely have much greater potential profit" my exact quote in the future than an iOS app. I did NOT say android currently has greater mobile ad revenues, and I especially didn't say it had greater ad revenues on the Opera network, lol.
Technicality: the last refuge of the failed debater. How utterly convincing.

Yes, you did say "potential profit." Those weasel words allow you to now, retroactively, claim that you mean profit in... 5 years! 10 years! Whenever Android finally gets around to being, you know, actually profitable for developers. In the meantime, it's 3.5x-4x less profitable to develop for Android than iOS now. That is a fact, not amateurish armchair conjecture. That is why Android apps are so poor compared to iOS apps, because serious businessmen making professional products go where the money is. Meanwhile, the un-curated Android stores are flooded with shoddy junk from hobbyists, inflating their numbers but not improving their quality.

Last edited by holymadness; 01-06-2013 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:23 AM   #519
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Technicality: the last refuge of the failed debater. How utterly convincing.

Yes, you did say "potential profit." Those weasel words allow you to now, retroactively, claim that you mean profit in... 5 years! 10 years! Whenever Android finally gets around to being, you know, actually profitable for developers. In the meantime, it's 3.5x-4x less profitable to develop for Android than iOS now. That is a fact, not amateurish armchair conjecture. That is why Android apps are so poor compared to iOS apps, because serious businessmen making professional products go where the money is. Meanwhile, the un-curated Android stores are flooded with shoddy junk from hobbyists, inflating their numbers but not improving their quality.
Nah, nah, nah ... I said:

"... greater profitability there in the long run."
"... the promise of overall revenues were greater."
"... potential profit ..."

Those are all precise quotes of what I said earlier this evening.

And, no, I certainly don't mean in 5 or 10 years. How about 1 year. Or 2 at the most.

LOL, I'm so sorry you're having so many issues with reading comprehension. That's your problem, not mine.

As for Google Play, there is no evidence that "hobbyists" are filling it up with "junk." But if it makes you feel better to make up such feeble things ... whatever floats your boat!

--Pat
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:32 AM   #520
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Are you being wilfully obtuse?

These are not ads in the Opera browser, they are ads delivered via the Opera mobile advertising network. 80% of them appear in apps on all smartphone platforms.

This is typical of how PatNY argues. He glances cursorily at the relevant data without trying to understand it, identifies a lone element he thinks he can nitpick about while avoiding the substance of the debate (in this case, the word 'opera'), and then tries to spin it to support his false claim. There is no logic involved, no reasoning. Just knee-jerk reaction in defence of a preconceived conclusion.
Hmmm ... are you being willfully illiterate?

Here is a quote from that Opera report:

"The report is based on traffic across Opera’s own mobile advertising network, which sends ads to some 10,000 mobile sites and apps."


Do you understand it yet?

Should I repeat that for you? Will it help?

Hint: How do you think people are viewing those ads which are on the "mobile sites?"

Really, you shouldn't link to reports that not only are missing important information -- relative to the point you're trying to make -- but which you also can't understand.

--Pat

Last edited by PatNY; 01-06-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:59 AM   #521
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Nah, nah, nah ... I said:

"... greater profitability there in thelong run."
"... the promiseof overall revenues were greater."
"... potentialprofit ..."

Those are all precise quotes of what I said earlier this evening.

And, no, I certainly don't mean in 5 or 10 years. How about 1 year. Or 2 at the most.

LOL, I'm so sorry you're having so many issues with reading comprehension. That's your problem, not mine.

As for Google Play, there is no evidence that "hobbyists" are filling it up with "junk." But if it makes you feel better to make up such feeble things ... whatever floats your boat!
So your thesis is that developers are flocking to make apps for Android because of profits they won't realize for 2 years' time.

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Old 01-06-2013, 03:04 AM   #522
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Hmmm ... are you being willfully illiterate?

Here is a quote from that Opera report:

"The report is based on traffic across Opera’s own mobile advertising network, which sends ads to some 10,000 mobile sites and apps."

Do you understand it yet?

Should I repeat that for you? Will it help?

Hint: How do you think people are viewing those ads which are on the "mobile sites?"

Really, you shouldn't link to reports that not only are missing important information -- relative to the point you're trying to make -- but which you also can't understand.
Wilfully obtuse or involuntarily ignorant at this point. The gallery will decide.

I invite anyone else interested to read the report and see for themselves just how badly PatNY has understood what is written in plain English.

The Opera mobile ad network displays ads in both apps and in mobile browsers (all browsers, not merely its own). 80% of its 40 billion ad impressions came from native apps on all major smartphone platforms. Ads served on iOS accounted for 347% more revenues than those on Android.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:26 AM   #523
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So your thesis is that developers are flocking to make apps for Android because of profits they won't realize for 2 years' time.

Ahh, thanks for illustrating your own comical misunderstanding of how app profits work!

Nope. My thesis is that the reason developers are flocking to android more than iOS (and that part isn't a thesis; it's fact) is because of greater profit potential currently and in the near future (up to two years).

You do know that app profits are a continuous stream, don't you? Developers don't realize profits only at a set point in time. For at least a moderately successful app, the profits come in almost right away with initial sales, and will continue to grow if either (a) the app grows in popularity OR (b) the user base grows larger. So, since the android user base is growing exponentially faster than iOS, a developer can submit his app to Google Play tomorrow, start getting good profits almost right away, then sit back for the next few years and watch his profits continue to roll in (with maybe only a few app updates in the interim needed). So he's counting on the Android user base to be maybe twice the current size in 12 or 16 months, increasing his profit potential in tandem. It's like investing for continuous dividends and compounded growth. And in this case the developers are "investing" with Android more heavily.

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Old 01-06-2013, 03:36 AM   #524
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Wilfully obtuse or involuntarily ignorant at this point. The gallery will decide.

I invite anyone else interested to read the report and see for themselves just how badly PatNY has understood what is written in plain English.

The Opera mobile ad network displays ads in both apps and in mobile browsers (all browsers, not merely its own). 80% of its 40 billion ad impressions came from native apps on all major smartphone platforms. Ads served on iOS accounted for 347% more revenues than those on Android.
And now you're being willfully shifty ....

After having just said "These are not ads in the Opera browser" (your exact words) you now admit right above that the ads are displayed "in mobile browsers," after I point out to you your utter confusion. And while ads are displayed in all browsers, the data in this report is specific to the Opera browser.


--Pat

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Old 01-06-2013, 03:51 AM   #525
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Let's not kid ourselves, the overall quality Android apps is feeble compared to iOS.

A quick look at the 25 most popular free apps on Google Play reveals a huge number of iOS-first apps: Skype, Angry Birds, Instagram, Fruit Ninja, Shazam, Cut the Rope, Jetpack Joyride, Netflix, Temple Run, etc.
iOS first does not imply iOS port to Android. Please read what I said.
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