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Old 11-20-2012, 08:30 AM   #31
frahse
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--
.. besides, that Jobs fellow is no longer around.
No one is addressing my "Jobs" comment.

Is that the elephant in the room? (Well, actually I guess the
elephant isn't there anymore.)
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:47 AM   #32
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Yes, Apple is completely screwing up. They "only" made $25 billion in Q3 2012 from iPhone and iPad devices, and are trouncing Android in the tablet market.

In comparison, Samsung apparently pulled in $7.5 billion from smartphone revenues from June 2010 to June 2012.

Sometimes, market share is not the end-all and be-all of business.

In the July-September period, Apple shipped 14 million devices, up 26 per cent from 11 million a year ago. Its market share fell from 60 per cent in the third quarter of 2011 as the overall tablet market grew by 50 per cent to nearly 28 million.

Samsung's market share grew to 18 per cent, from about 7 per cent, as it more than quadrupled the number of tablets shipped to 5.1 million.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/st...ket-share.html



According to the IDC, Apple has 50.4 percent of the tablet market, down from 65.5 percent in previous quarter. Samsung, Amazon, Asus, and Lenovo, all took share from Apple during the quarter.


While market share may not be the end all and be all of business, loss of market share hurts any company.

Last edited by obsessed2; 11-20-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #33
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All that says is that the market has grown... so Apple's share is 15% down but their actual (extremely profitable) unit sales were up 26%... market share loss/gain is only of major significance when the market is static... and it isn't yet!

Any company would be happy to increase their profitable sales by 26% and Samsung are not as financially wonderful as implied, take a look at their financials if you're really interested (they're online) and bear in mind that electronics is also only a small part of the company...

I'm not prejudiced in any particular direction unlike some on these boards... I have a Samsung Galaxy IIS smartphone, an iPad 4, an Android tablet, an iMac and a Fujitsu-Siemans laptop amongst other things... I like and use them all but the Android tablet and laptop are starting to lose ground now I have the iPad because it does so much of what I want without problems or wasted time...
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:24 AM   #34
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Apache, I am having a hard time perceiving the lesson.

Did Apple even have a shot at getting the IBM operating system contract that launched Microsoft into the computing stratosphere?

And wasn't Apple right to stick to their strength (designing, and overseeing the manufacturing, of high end hardware running their own operating systems)? Back when Apple licensed the Mac OS to other manufacturers, it wasn't all that successful.
If Apple had licensed other companies to manufacture the hardware they could have concentrated on the OS and other software. Competition would have lowered the price of Apple computers as it did with the PC. They would still have had to have the Apple OS. This would have made Apple computers more competitive with the PC and it might even had been possible that Apple would be dominating the Personal Computer Market today. This business model is what made Bill Gates the richest man in the world. Instead their market share kept shrinking until they were hurting. If not for the iPod and iPhone, Apple may easily have gone under in the current economic climate. And I still see Apple continuing with the same business model today.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #35
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In the July-September period, Apple shipped 14 million devices, up 26 per cent from 11 million a year ago. Its market share fell from 60 per cent in the third quarter of 2011 as the overall tablet market grew by 50 per cent to nearly 28 million.

Samsung's market share grew to 18 per cent, from about 7 per cent, as it more than quadrupled the number of tablets shipped to 5.1 million.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/st...ket-share.html



According to the IDC, Apple has 50.4 percent of the tablet market, down from 65.5 percent in previous quarter. Samsung, Amazon, Asus, and Lenovo, all took share from Apple during the quarter.


While market share may not be the end all and be all of business, loss of market share hurts any company.
Tablet share will change drastically with the Mini, somewhat with Surface. That is if anyone can find the former to purchase!
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #36
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If Apple had licensed other companies to manufacture the hardware they could have concentrated on the OS and other software. Competition would have lowered the price of Apple computers as it did with the PC. They would still have had to have the Apple OS. This would have made Apple computers more competitive with the PC and it might even had been possible that Apple would be dominating the Personal Computer Market today. This business model is what made Bill Gates the richest man in the world. Instead their market share kept shrinking until they were hurting. If not for the iPod and iPhone, Apple may easily have gone under in the current economic climate. And I still see Apple continuing with the same business model today.
Apache
And then we'd have piles of assorted hardware and incompatible pieces just like the PC model... Apple keep things simple for a customer base that just like things to work and generally they manage it... there's a premium charged for this and if you don't like that then stick with the PC - it's not like there isn't a choice available but controlling the hardware and OS works just fine - and I use PC, Mac, Linux and Android but when I hava a choice I usually prefer to use the iMac/iPad because I can ignore them and get on with the task I want to accomplish...
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:40 PM   #37
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And then we'd have piles of assorted hardware and incompatible pieces just like the PC model...
You mean like how things were until the late '90s? Even after the ISA bus became standard and hardware developers stopped using excessively proprietary connectors, there was no guarantee hardware would work properly. You had IRQs to configure, drivers to install, versions to manually track, and all that. You also had to have the right ribbon cables, right edge card cables, and even the right cables to your printer and all that. Some of them might even physically fit, but be electrically incompatible. And devices that required their own controller card because the maker didn't want to use an existing standard.

NuBus tried to solve all those problems, but putting a controller chip on the motherboard was just too much to ask.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by frahse View Post
No one is addressing my "Jobs" comment.

Is that the elephant in the room? (Well, actually I guess the
elephant isn't there anymore.)
I noticed but it's too early to judge Cook's tenure.
(That's what you're hinting at, right?)

His background is as a supply chain guy and so far Apple's 2012 products look to be supply chain products (defined more by the components the supply chain can and can't deliver; i.e., screens and processors) instead of software-and-design products (defined by their software capabilities or design innovation) but that doesn't mean that all future products will be that way.

After all, when Cook took over the word was that Apple had a five year Jobsian plan laid out to ease the transition. It's only been one year so we're likely still looking at "legacy" products where Jobs had input into the design.

Depending on how well Jobs' vision aligns to market developments and how committed Cook/Ives/et al are to sticking to the plan they might still be rolling out Jobsian products well into '14 or ditching it and crafting their own direction sometime next summer. Either way, I'd say we need to wait for a minimum of two full Fiscal Years under (only) Cook to tell whether he can keep Apple on top and how he is doing it. Say fall of '13.

I will say '12 has not been the best of (recent) years for Apple's image but their financials aren't hurting.
Yet.

Last edited by fjtorres; 11-20-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #39
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I prefer the flexibility of being able to build my own computer to fit my needs having the ability to upgrade it without buying a completely new computer. And like it or not, if Apple had to rely only on it's computer business it would be struggling and or out of business. My point is that they look to be using the same business model with their current business model and if so they may find Google and others may capture the majority of the market share. I am talking survivability here not the merits of one company's hardware over another.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Apache View Post
I prefer the flexibility of being able to build my own computer to fit my needs having the ability to upgrade it without buying a completely new computer. And like it or not, if Apple had to rely only on it's computer business it would be struggling and or out of business. My point is that they look to be using the same business model with their current business model and if so they may find Google and others may capture the majority of the market share. I am talking survivability here not the merits of one company's hardware over another.
Apache
I, for one, hear you.
But I don't think that Apple's survivability is at stake anytime soon; with $100 billion-plus in cash reserves Apple could survive outright losses for a decade and still endure, ala Sony, stumbling from one disaster to another without any real risk to their existence. That is one R-I-C-H company.

What is at risk, though, is Apple's dominance of the consumer gadget space.
For the last decade, they have been the thousand pound gorilla of the electronics industry and their design language and product definitions have been the model for most of the me-too asian vendors. They have successfully identified and exploited the most profitable niches and steamrollered even the best designed competitor products that didn't follow their lead.

That won't last. It never does.
And at some point their declining share of a growing market will become a declining share of a mature market and if they haven't identified new growth opportunities by then, their *relevance* will be at risk.

But not their survivability. Not with their bank account. That will take a decade of screwups and rudderless management. Again: look at Sony, they're still crawling...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #41
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I have never bought an Apple product, although have used a few due to companies I've worked for doling them out to employees. They seem functional enough I guess.
However no external storage, the Apple walled garden is a big turn off for me.

After saying that, I hope Apple survives and people do continue to buy their products.
Competition is important for the consumer.
I appreciate why some people like Apple products, they generally "just work" and are non technical.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #42
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I prefer the flexibility of being able to build my own computer to fit my needs having the ability to upgrade it without buying a completely new computer. And like it or not, if Apple had to rely only on it's computer business it would be struggling and or out of business. My point is that they look to be using the same business model with their current business model and if so they may find Google and others may capture the majority of the market share. I am talking survivability here not the merits of one company's hardware over another.
Apache
On the whole there is far less importance to computer hardware than there used to be... very few people now run anything that seriously stretches the hardware (excluding top-end games) and most of us just want to get on with our work and hobbies rather than play with hardware to tweak couple of extra clock cycles... and I would point out that my first computer work involved a pre-transistor (let alone IC) device constructed at school - it occupied 2 cubic metres, was relay/diode construction and had a magnificent 256 bytes of memory programmed by front panel switches (or occasionally paper tape when allowed)... that was fine because that was the work we were doing but these days the major problems I get from clients concern the system distracting from the work by "computing" getting in the way... the computers we have now are so powerful and yet still so damned inefficient in many ways but I get far fewer problems from people with Macs, iPads etc than PC users.

Personally I love PCs... they cause people to give me money far better than Apple products...

As for upgrades, I prefer having a computer that doesn't need upgrades every five minutes to function properly... I still use a 2nd generation Intel iMac comfortably and it even happily runs Windows 7 - haven't tried with Win 8 yet but I may do so... and I regularly upgrade the hard disks I use for it and find no problems with my current 8TB of storage. As for computer business struggling - why is Apple's tablet not computing but everyone else's is?? My newly acquired iPad 4 sure computes for me... as does its 500GB external drive, a beautiful Lithium polymer powered 2.5" hard drive running over Airtime...
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:46 PM   #43
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Yes, Apple is completely screwing up. They "only" made $25 billion in Q3 2012 from iPhone and iPad devices,
For $25 billion Android can eat my lunch and dinner.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:36 PM   #44
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If Apple had licensed other companies to manufacture the hardware they could have concentrated on the OS and other software.
From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Apple eventually licensed the Apple II ROMs to other companies. . . .
Apple's clone program entailed the licensing of the Macintosh ROMs and system software to other manufacturers, each of which agreed to pay a flat fee for a license . . .

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This would have made Apple computers more competitive with the PC and it might even had been possible that Apple would be dominating the Personal Computer Market today.
Possible, but unlikely. Consider that Apple has the highest market capitalization of any company on the planet. As of October 25, Apple was, by my calculation using figures here, 36 percent larger than number 2 Exxon-Mobile. If Apple had become much more successful than this, say, by dominating the desktop and laptop operating system market, trust busters would probably have broken them by now.

Quote:
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If not for the iPod and iPhone, Apple may easily have gone under in the current economic climate.
Every business strategy has risks, especially in industries with high levels of technological change.

Undoubtedly there is a certain level of laziness and incompetence that can destroy a company. But beyond that, I think more depends on luck than is acknowledged.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:11 PM   #45
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Apple does not compete in the low end market and the high end market wont have much growth compared to mid level and low level market. Most people from Asian countries where the future growth is cant afford $800-1000 dollar phones which is for most a few months income.
Now many of you are right in saying that apple does not care as its not selling to them anyway but the thing is once their are no new smartphone apple buyers it will start competing for customers with others and that is the time when it would start having problems.
Google is planning on a getting into the wireless telecom market I would bet you they would start with something like half the price of current telco contracts and to compete and not loose customers the big 4 american telcos would have to bring down their overpriced plans wont be able to subsidise the Iphone by the amounts they do today will be unwilling to pay apple high prices so apple will loose its high margins. I expect apple stock to either split or reach over $1000-$1200 a pop over the next 3-4 years but after that it is going to plummet.
I am predicting all this without considering any new inventions that come up in the next few years but truthfully I don't think smartphones will be the thing in 4 years time. In 4 years when the rest of the world has reached saturation in the smartphone market something like google glasses will be more the in thing with voice and gestures instead of touch screens. Another problem Apple will face in the future is big data where google is miles ahead of anyone but is still improving faster than the rest so in the future when ui and interfaces are not important but the information is Apple wont be able to make the amount of money it is making as the device you would be using wont be as important as the data.
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