Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-16-2012, 03:35 PM   #46
PainMike
the Gusto Gargoyle
PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PainMike ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
PainMike's Avatar
 
Posts: 76
Karma: 1375270
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Finland Proper
Device: Samsung Galaxy SIII GT-I9305
Thanks for sharing this, excellent stuff and great discussion. As I'm still without e-reading device and still wading through tech sections of this forum, I have not so much to declare but give my five cents:

First, I would have limited the St. Augustine part to a couple of sentences. With tech generation it does not help much describing Biblical sections when telling about the breaktrough and change of habits within book revolution versus scrolls.

Second, I feel for this guy. According the Amazon page of his book, he has been with computers relatively early. Yet he has verbalized the wonderment about the change of something he considers sacred and goes into resistance that carries likeness to an army general of the 20th century beginning seeing an aeroplane. Also I have seen this resistance in tens if not hundreds of current articles denying the press changing all electronic, yet printing houses are declining regardless of trade cycle(correct?).

One of writer's main problems seems to be the losing of grasp of the Good Olde Book. I have no single doubt that Piper would have any lack of controlling new gadgets, he merely describes the difficult change of habit and does it in physical level, which tech generation does not have worries about. In the spirit of earlier computer generation he describes the same idea I have
---------------
Faust reminds us of the way books are totems against ceaseless activity
---------------
...and the sanctuary, for Piper and, I admit, for me, when I'm tired of the screen; perhaps very archaic nonsense for all who contest at coffee break with gadgets. But Piper submits
---------------
But Faust also reminds us not to hold on too tightly. He shows us the risks of grasping. He reminds me that the meaning of reading lies in the oscillatory rhythms of the opening and closing hand.
---------------
World's changing, and doing it fast.But this is still '0's and '1's for me, maintained by the current from the sockets and batteries dependent on it. Yet e-readers' mobility, clarity and huge storage capability are 'the aeroplane' of the book world. Not to talk about needless bedside lamp
PainMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 03:48 PM   #47
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,844
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
I can't feel for the author. The Saint Augustine section was simply irrelevant to whether or not reading from an e-book is real reading. But the real reason I can't feel for him is that he spits in the face of people who use e-readers. He's absolutely free to prefer paper books, absolutely free to not read e-books, I won't criticize people for their preferences. But he can't imagine that other people might have different preferences, can't imagine that people can get just as much out of a book in an e-book format that he gets out of it in paper format.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #48
crich70
Grand Sorcerer
crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.crich70 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
crich70's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,078
Karma: 20740757
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monroe Wisconsin
Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)
One thing that just occurred to me that makes any arguments he has with ebook moot is the fact that he posted the article to a computer based webpage. If anything other than pbook reading isn't reading then none of us have read his argument against ebooks yet. Guess he'll just have to print up a couple million paper copies and distribute them by hand.
crich70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #49
Ripplinger
350 Hoarder
Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ripplinger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ripplinger's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,097
Karma: 2258009
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Device: Sony PRS-350: 3 Silver, 2 Blue!; Kobo Glo
I think one commenter got it right when he referred to the author as a troll. All I can say is what a crock, especially given the fact that he published it electronically.
Ripplinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 04:52 PM   #50
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,540
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripplinger View Post
I think one commenter got it right when he referred to the author as a troll. All I can say is what a crock, especially given the fact that he published it electronically.
Perhaps someone can recommend a good psychiatrist to that poor man? Or could it be a brain tumor?
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 05:12 PM   #51
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,758
Karma: 39465375
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #52
caleb72
Indie Advocate
caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.caleb72 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
caleb72's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,690
Karma: 14475697
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumIguana View Post
The article can be summed up as "I prefer reading paper books, therefore, reading e-books isn't real reading!" It's like saying that dark meat isn't real turkey because you prefer white meat. The tactile experience of a great classic is identical to the tactile experience of a poor book, which seems to weaken the central importance of the feel of the book. If a hardcover gives a better tactile experience than reading a paperback, does it mean that reading a paperback isn't real reading? Or how about reading a very high quality hardcover book with an embossed book cover with gold leaf? Surely that must be the ultimate in reading. That fancy hardcover with the gold leaf may look nice on the shelf, but reading from it is no more real reading than is reading from an ordinary hardcover, a paperback... or from an e-reader. By dog eared paperbacks that are nearly falling apart are no less books than any other.

His Augustine example is strange. In his example, Augustine is engaging in bibliomancy, flipping a book open at random as if that gives you some insight. It's sort of like using a magic 8-ball, but in any case, there's no reason you can't flip to a random passage in an e-book.

Too many people just can't imagine that someone else might not like the same things they do. My wife likes ginger, I do not. She's not wrong to do so. And this person isn't wrong to prefer e-books, but is wrong in asserting that reading from an e-book isn't real reading. E-readers are physical objects, and thus have a tactical experience too - the words aren't disembodied things floating in front of our eyes. There is more to the reading experience than just the medium. There's the chair you sit in - if you use a chair at all. There's the lighting. There's the sound - some prefer music, I prefer silence. Some people like to have their favorite beverage at their side while reading. If he's going to insist that only with the tactile experience of paper is it real e-reading, then what of the other sensory aspects? Must I sit in a chair to read, or is it still real reading if I lie in bed? If I am reading a paper book, but lie the book in front of me and only touch it when I turn the pages, is that real reading?

He used braille as an example, but it doesn't work. He talks about the tactile experience of paper as being central to real reading, but people using braille are not doing so for the atmosphere of it, but to sense the words. You could just as easily argue that braille isn't real reading, because you aren't using your eyes. It would be an unreasonable argument, but that's the sort of argument he's making. And what about braille using an electronic device? Is that real reading.

Reading is reading, whether you read from clay tablets, stone, papyrus, paper or an e-reader.
Karma to you for well-reasoned argument in response to something that is not.
caleb72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:22 PM   #53
meeera
Wizard
meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
meeera's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,875
Karma: 4971842
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura, iPad MiniRet, MBP;support AuraHD,Kindle,2xKobo Glos
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieTigger View Post
But all sarcasm aside: is there a e-reader that instead of e-ink got a braille display? Now wouldn't that be neat?
There are portable Braille displays, but they are expensive (four figures), less luggable than e-ink readers, and they generally need to be teamed with a laptop, or, more recently, an iOS device. Although that device can take an SD card - you could read documents from that, but you've still only got a line at a time in the most compact devices, and the fragility, expense & battery life issues. Audiobooks tend to be the tipple of choice for portable reading among a few people I know.

Dedicated Braille e-readers exist in the concept design stage.
meeera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:14 PM   #54
DuckieTigger
Wizard
DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DuckieTigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DuckieTigger's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,187
Karma: 24156402
Join Date: Dec 2011
Device: Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeera View Post
There are portable Braille displays, but they are expensive (four figures), less luggable than e-ink readers, and they generally need to be teamed with a laptop, or, more recently, an iOS device. Although that device can take an SD card - you could read documents from that, but you've still only got a line at a time in the most compact devices, and the fragility, expense & battery life issues. Audiobooks tend to be the tipple of choice for portable reading among a few people I know.

Dedicated Braille e-readers exist in the concept design stage.
Thank you for the information, interesting read.
It is too bad that it might not happen due to limited demand and expensive production. Audiobooks and TTS might be viable options, but that is a restriction I would not like to have. IMO it is a too passive activity and you are forced to listen at a continious speed. If I pay close attention to my reading, I notice that my reading speed varies depending on the kind of scene (e.g. action scenes, dialogues, monologues) - and sometimes I stop for a few moments as I rearrange people and objects if they are completely out of whack. (wait a second, where did you come from? backup, redo)
DuckieTigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:41 PM   #55
Marbles
Zealot
Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.Marbles got an A in P-Chem.
 
Posts: 102
Karma: 6296
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albert, Canada
Device: KoboTouch & Kobo Vox iPad2
I did not read the article but just from the few post I have read here I am glad I did not. I read on an ereader because the printed page is to tiny form my old eyes. With an ereader I can make the font bigger so that it is easier for me to read. It sounds like this person just wanted to complain.
Marbles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:42 AM   #56
LovesMacs
Evangelist
LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.LovesMacs ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
LovesMacs's Avatar
 
Posts: 414
Karma: 1592518
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Somewhere with seagulls. And bunnies.
Device: Kindle Touch, iPhone
I stand by my belief that the article was written as satire. I once wrote a similar piece asserting that the "huh huh" laugh in the 1990s cartoon "Beavis and Butthead" was not a mere giggle but rather a heartfelt attempt to express thoughts and feelings that go beyond words. I ended up writing several pages worth of musings on this, with appropriate references to various philosophers and footnotes. Sadly the essay is now lost in the past.

I wrote that purely to see if I could, not for any coursework. Who knows what the motivation of this writer is.
LovesMacs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:46 AM   #57
alexxx
Connoisseur
alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 67
Karma: 479602
Join Date: Aug 2006
Device: Kindle DX
I owned ereaders since their beginning. - and I'm posting this from my ipad.
Yet reading about the sarcasm everywhere in this thread, I'm a bit saddened... Nothing for me will ever surpass the pleasure of holding a real books in my hands, nor - laugh as much as you want - its texture, its smell.
Please, feel free to swim in the digital seas as much as you want - I'll remain convinced that the zealots among you have lost a lot.
alexxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 08:53 AM   #58
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,758
Karma: 39465375
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxx View Post
Please, feel free to swim in the digital seas as much as you want - I'll remain convinced that the zealots among you have lost a lot.
But will you feel the need to wax philosophical about what we've lost on a public podium? Or will you just go about your own practices (which aren't really in any danger of disappearing) and allow us idiots to wallow in our own inferior, digital experiences in peace and quiet?

Last edited by DiapDealer; 11-17-2012 at 08:56 AM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 10:11 AM   #59
alexxx
Connoisseur
alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alexxx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 67
Karma: 479602
Join Date: Aug 2006
Device: Kindle DX
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
But will you feel the need to wax philosophical about what we've lost on a public podium? Or will you just go about your own practices (which aren't really in any danger of disappearing) and allow us idiots to wallow in our own inferior, digital experiences in peace and quiet?
Please... As you said, the podium is public! I felt it necessary to express a minority position - was I wrong?
And let me add: I dont think I used the term <idiots> anywhere. Zealot means somethin else I guess...
alexxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #60
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,758
Karma: 39465375
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxx View Post
Please... As you said, the podium is public! I felt it necessary to express a minority position - was I wrong?
And let me add: I dont think I used the term <idiots> anywhere. Zealot means somethin else I guess...
My point is: why the urge to condemn/declaim something that frankly doesn't have to affect you if you don't want it to? No one is being forced to e-read. And I doubt highly they ever will be. Disliking it vocally is a waste of time--and borderline baiting. But you are correct. It's your time and the podium is public: waste away.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 11-17-2012 at 10:24 AM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reading a Book Versus a Screen: Different Reading Devices wodin General Discussions 9 10-25-2011 05:05 PM
Why isn't reading "cool"? xg4bx General Discussions 97 10-20-2011 12:06 AM
Speed reading - does it add or detract for fiction reading? kiwidude General Discussions 14 09-17-2011 03:25 PM
Isn't mobile reading wonderful? rylaars Introduce Yourself 7 05-21-2010 02:06 PM
Environmental study: 30 min of e-paper reading = 30 mins of print reading Steven Lyle Jordan News 36 12-14-2007 03:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:18 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.