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Old 11-13-2012, 09:12 PM   #151
SteveEisenberg
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Sinofsky moved to Windows because the development process that led to Vista was broken.
Really?

The main reason people didn't like Vista was User Account Control. This wasn't a problem with the development process, just with marketing and the public not being prepared for the downsides of a more secure system.

If I want an approximation of my little freeware program (see my sig line) to run under Windows RT, it will cost me $49 a year for the store registration fee. If this discouragement of freeware and open source development had been part of the Vista package, it would have been yet another example of the horrors of Microsoft Vista. But even negative Win8/WinRT reviews fail to mention it, because Apple has paved the way with its own app store that is even less open-source-friendly than Microsoft's.

Windows 8 will rise or fall more based on whether it fits with the Zeitgeist than with whether Steven Sinofsky was better at whipping a development organization into shape than was his predecessor.

P.S. I don't mean to harshly criticize the $49 fee. It's much cheaper than a code signing certificate, and gives both user and developer at least as much protection.

P.P.S. This is one of those posts where I'm not sure I'm right. Maybe Vista was worse than I think. But I did use it for 4 years at home, while using, and programming for, XP in my office, and I like Vista better.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:03 PM   #152
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I would, too. Unfortunately my wife would give me hell.... Perhaps if my laptop had a sudden accident
Quite helpful, that Surface RT and Surface Pro look that similar.
I have to be careful, never to show them both at the same time.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:29 PM   #153
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You're right, I haven't seen one, which is why I haven't attempted to review it. I also wouldn't attempt a review having played with one for a mere10 minutes, which was the point I was making.

If other people (whose opinions I might actually care about) want to laugh at me for thinking that 10 minutes is too short a time to base a meaningful review on, so be it. It is, after all, just an opinion.
The only member of this forum who owns a Surface has already affirmed that lack of apps is a problem with the platform. It is a fact and the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will cease to look like a fool.

I made no pretensions to offering a meticulous review. If you truly believe that my limited experience with the device makes me unqualified to have any opinions about it at all, then your total absence of experience should preclude you from even posting in this thread.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:08 AM   #154
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Quite helpful, that Surface RT and Surface Pro look that similar.
I have to be careful, never to show them both at the same time.
I see you are an old Pro, way ahead of me here
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:24 AM   #155
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I see you are an old Pro, way ahead of me here

quote by - mgmueller
Quite helpful, that Surface RT and Surface Pro look that similar.
I have to be careful, never to show them both at the same time
I take that precaution with my wives (ex, and not at the time) and my girl friends (ex, and not at the time.)

It can get hectic. I feel that old song about a "ball and chain" coming on.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:18 AM   #156
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I take that precaution with my wives (ex, and not at the time) and my girl friends (ex, and not at the time.)

It can get hectic. I feel that old song about a "ball and chain" coming on.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:18 AM   #157
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Really?

The main reason people didn't like Vista was User Account Control.
Read the quote again: "The *process* that led to Vista was broken."
I said nothing about Vista being good or bad (I'm actually typing this on a Vista Netbook, okay?).

Ballmer gave Windows to Sinofsky because the previous division managers took too long in getting a full version replacement for XP out the door (less money coming in) and when they did they didn't realize just how the account controls (and other traits) would be received. Which, considering how much MS spends on their usability labs and testing was unforgiveable.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:41 AM   #158
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Does anyone know when Windows 8 Pro Surface tablets are being released?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:42 AM   #159
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The only member of this forum who owns a Surface has already affirmed that lack of apps is a problem with the platform. It is a fact and the sooner you accept it, the sooner you will cease to look like a fool.

I made no pretensions to offering a meticulous review. If you truly believe that my limited experience with the device makes me unqualified to have any opinions about it at all, then your total absence of experience should preclude you from even posting in this thread.
Checking Wikipedia, I see that when the iOS app store opened it had 500 apps, in 6 months it had only 15,000 apps, and it took almost a year to get to 50,000 apps. That certainly didn't mean that platform was a failure, it just takes time to build up a large store of apps.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:55 AM   #160
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Does anyone know when Windows 8 Pro Surface tablets are being released?
Not very specific, but all I've got:
"The product is expected to be launched approximately 90 days after Windows 8, which points to a February release roughly three weeks after the Consumer Electronics Show which will be the focal point for the tech industry in the first quarter of 2013."

http://www.itproportal.com/2012/10/2...#ixzz2CCm6Af5y
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:04 AM   #161
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Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:17 AM   #162
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Checking Wikipedia, I see that when the iOS app store opened it had 500 apps, in 6 months it had only 15,000 apps, and it took almost a year to get to 50,000 apps. That certainly didn't mean that platform was a failure, it just takes time to build up a large store of apps.
I didn't say it would lead to failure, I just felt that it jumped out at me as the platform's principal drawback when I used it. Only time will tell whether Win8 is able to accrue significant support from developers. I would nevertheless hesitate to draw close parallels between the evolution of iOS and Win8. When the former's app store was opened it had no real competition, so things will almost certainly play out differently this time.

Last edited by holymadness; 11-14-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:46 AM   #163
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The only member of this forum who owns a Surface has already affirmed that lack ...

There seem to be at least two owners (check post #1 and post#15).
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:51 AM   #164
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Quite right.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:05 AM   #165
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P.P.S. This is one of those posts where I'm not sure I'm right. Maybe Vista was worse than I think. But I did use it for 4 years at home, while using, and programming for, XP in my office, and I like Vista better.
I constantly wonder this myself. I have two Vista machines. One is the office computer running Vista Home Premium and the other is my favorite 11" laptop, which is running Vista Basic. My desktop is running 7 and my Duo is running 8. Obviously I haven't had 8 long, but of the others, I can't point to any of them and say, "That's a troublesome OS." I've just not had any real issues with any of them, including Vista. I was more than happy to move on from XP. Vista was faster and (for me) worked properly. No complaints.

But at the same time, I do know people who were plagued with problems with Vista. I'd be tempted to chalk it up to just me being good navigating and working with Win OSes and thus less likely to have problems, but some of the people who suffered Vista issues are also skilled in that regard, so that can't be all of it.

I don't know. I've been hearing from almost day one that "Vista sucks" but haven't experienced that. Yet I have to acknowledge that for some people, Vista does indeed suck. 'Tis a mystery that may never be solved.
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