Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Writers' Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2012, 04:42 AM   #1
Prestidigitweeze
Fledgling Demagogue
Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Prestidigitweeze's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,261
Karma: 24940597
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Aura HD; Nexus 7; PRS-350, 950; Kindle K; OnePlus One; Galaxy S4; MBP.
Diaereses for e-Books?

Some of you might have noticed, both in dictionaries and in publishing, the use of the diaeresis (pronounced dye-era-sis) to denote the second syllable of two adjacent like vowels. Thus, the word reelection is rendered reëlection, and the word cooptation becomes coöptation.

Lately, I've decided I like both the look and clarity of this diacritical mark. Substitutions within my own texts amount to nothing more than six conditional globals, but I've noticed that the change can introduce false-corresponding characters in certain fonts. Since I can only check the result against the e-readers I own or live with (Sony Readers, a Kindle and a Nook), I'd love to know whether the problem exists for other e-readers or if there's something I should do to create a standardized alternative. After all, the diaeresis does look identical to an umlaut.

What do you suggest? I love the specificity which the diaeresis affords the pronunciation of less-familiar words -- particularly the neologisms which I like to create.

And while we're on the subject, how do my fellow writers and formatters prefer to implement the use of relatively uncommon characters?

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 10-26-2012 at 07:08 AM.
Prestidigitweeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 06:26 AM   #2
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,394
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: Kindle Fire HD 7
How common is this? I have not heard, nor seen it anywhere in common use. Would your readers even know what it was?
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 07:05 AM   #3
Prestidigitweeze
Fledgling Demagogue
Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Prestidigitweeze's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,261
Karma: 24940597
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Aura HD; Nexus 7; PRS-350, 950; Kindle K; OnePlus One; Galaxy S4; MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
How common is this? I have not heard, nor seen it anywhere in common use. Would your readers even know what it was?
Ah, but I've never written for readers. I've always written for myself and a few close friends. I once won an award for a collection of stories I never expected anyone to read.

But to answer your question, the diaeresis is fairly common. See this blog entry and then read any article in the New Yorker afterward.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 10-26-2012 at 07:09 AM.
Prestidigitweeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 07:18 AM   #4
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,394
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: Kindle Fire HD 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
Ah, but I've never written for readers. I've always written for myself and a few close friends. I once won an award for a collection of stories I never expected anyone to read.

But to answer your question, the diaeresis is fairly common. See this blog entry and then read any article in the New Yorker afterward.
Still I read news sites of all levels on and off all day long (literally). I am in grad school so there is a ton of reading there at the scholarly level. I do not think I have ever see these marks like you mentioned. So I have a hard time believing they are common at all.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 07:44 AM   #5
Prestidigitweeze
Fledgling Demagogue
Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Prestidigitweeze's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,261
Karma: 24940597
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Aura HD; Nexus 7; PRS-350, 950; Kindle K; OnePlus One; Galaxy S4; MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
Still I read news sites of all levels on and off all day long (literally). I am in grad school so there is a ton of reading there at the scholarly level. I do not think I have ever see these marks like you mentioned. So I have a hard time believing they are common at all.
Have I missed something? You're talking about your experience of graduate school as central to common practice in publishing and dismissing the style sheet of a widely read American magazine as irrelevant.

With all due respect,

(1) grad school can involve light or difficult reading depending on the subject, teachers and institution (this is not a criticism of your reading history or the standards of your grad school),
(2) whether your reading is light or heavy, that's still in relation to your own experience and therefore inductive,
(3) even if you were right and your own experience equaled common practice, a temporary consensus does not equal ultimate practicality, nor does it cancel out exactitude, and
(4) I asked a question to which I'd like an answer and you seem to be blocking my request.

I understand that you've never seen a diaeresis before. What I don't accept is the assumption that, because you haven't encountered it yourself, a given diacritical mark shouldn't be important to anyone else.

Had you asked me about something which you found meaningful, I'd have tried to respect your question.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 10-26-2012 at 08:00 AM.
Prestidigitweeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 08:17 AM   #6
VydorScope
Wizard
VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.VydorScope ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
VydorScope's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,394
Karma: 35207650
Join Date: Jun 2011
Device: Kindle Fire HD 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
With all due respect,
<snip>
(3) I asked a question to which I'd like an answer and you seem to be blocking my request.
<snip>
My apologies, I did not mean to come across that way. I cannot come up with a way to continue a quest for understanding the desire to use a marker that is not common, and the New Yorker themselves says "The diaeresis is the single thing that readers of the letter-writing variety complain about most," with out sounding attacking (which I do not want to do) so I will drop it completely. I am sorry for any problem I have caused.

I realize that I have derailed your thread so ... getting back on track ...

My understanding you would have to use the UTF-8 code for it, as you no doubt know. (see:
https://simg1.imagesbn.com/pimages/p...ting_guide.pdf or http://www.hxa.name/articles/content...7241_2007.html )

Quote:
but I've noticed that the change can introduce false-corresponding characters in certain fonts.
Can you embed the font choice then? The letters are in the UTF-8 char set, so IMO any font that does not render them right is broken. Not that that matters.
VydorScope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 08:33 AM   #7
Prestidigitweeze
Fledgling Demagogue
Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Prestidigitweeze ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Prestidigitweeze's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,261
Karma: 24940597
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: White Plains
Device: Aura HD; Nexus 7; PRS-350, 950; Kindle K; OnePlus One; Galaxy S4; MBP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VydorScope View Post
My apologies, I did not mean to come across that way. I cannot come up with a way to continue a quest for understanding the desire to use a marker that is not common, and the New Yorker themselves says "The diaeresis is the single thing that readers of the letter-writing variety complain about most," with out sounding attacking (which I do not want to do) so I will drop it completely.
I don't mean to offend you either, but I feel I must comment on this.

While I appreciate your sentiment, the above response seems conflicted at best. If you were uninterested in having the last word on the relevance of my question, then why would you bother quoting the New Yorker in support of your previous point (and, again, making controversy the metonym of rarity)?

However, since I'd prefer to take you at your word, and a friend is far more valuable than a potentially irked forum member, let's move on, as you say.

Quote:
My understanding you would have to use the UTF-8 code for it, as you no doubt know. (see:
https://simg1.imagesbn.com/pimages/p...ting_guide.pdf or http://www.hxa.name/articles/content...7241_2007.html )

Can you embed the font choice then? The letters are in the UTF-8 char set, so IMO any font that does not render them right is broken. Not that that matters.
Thanks for the additional verification. Yes, I did know it was used in UTF-8, and therefore in extended ASCII, but I don't want to overlook any omissions in any fonts which are commonly used on readers. One of the Sonys I checked does use fonts which were installed with the custom firmware and which don't seem to reproduce the mark I wish to include.

When I get home from work, I'll reformat the text I was checking and have a look at the offending fonts again. I'll even name names.

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 10-26-2012 at 08:39 AM.
Prestidigitweeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 11:00 AM   #8
Pulpmeister
Addict
Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Pulpmeister ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 235
Karma: 1683744
Join Date: Nov 2011
Device: kindle
I am familiar with the diaresis, more common I think in British than American usage. The most common use I have seen is in "cooperation". I wouldn't use it myself in preparing an e-book, preferring "co-operation". However, if the original text uses it, what are you to do?

I just use the extended character set, select the vowel with the umlaut, and hope for the best. I'd be interested to see which character sets would produce a strange result.

Mind, I always use Calibri through clunky Microsoft Word, so I'm not sure this has been a problem to affect me.
Pulpmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
teh603
Snarky Snark
teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.teh603 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
teh603's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,198
Karma: 6244877
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Coastal Texas
Device: Asus TF300
I don't remember seeing those used either, but they're definitely in Unicode, and early enough to be supported by most readers. That's also how I use oddball characters, though, like when I had a character named Nyx Pi (spelled out since I'm on my tablet and don't know quite how to insert Unicode glyphs into posts on it). She was an engineered human; the first name was the model identifier and the second was usually their serial number in hex. Prototypes were given irrational number symbols as serial numbers; there was also a Nyx e (as in Log Natural e, which is also irrational). As a result, I had to keep the Greek letter on the clipboard and paste it in whenever I needed it.



Somehow it also made me think, "The umlauts are starting at you!"

Last edited by teh603; 10-26-2012 at 01:48 PM.
teh603 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:56 PM   #10
Freeshadow
temp. out of service
Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Freeshadow ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,300
Karma: 12788764
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Duisburg (DE)
Device: BeBook mini
The problem is that in some cases said letters can be confused with umlauts.
Freeshadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Books I didn't buy on 2 new Kobo Wifi readers (not 100 free books) tylermckellar Kobo Reader 12 07-26-2012 09:29 PM
A Noobs Guide to Borrowing E-Library Books and Installing non Kobo Bookstore Books bamelin Kobo Reader 17 01-07-2012 04:11 PM
Free (Kindle/Nook)(some at Sony/iBooks) Six books from Writers Digest Books arcadata Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 12 11-13-2011 02:10 PM
Free books (Kobo) - 20 Dorchester Publishing Books (Romance, Horror, Thriller etc.) ATDrake Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 15 09-24-2010 07:01 PM
Two free books (kobo) from Francesca Lia Block [BOOKS DELETED BY AUTHOR] koland Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 11 04-08-2010 06:03 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:25 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.