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Old 11-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #406
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #407
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Well, that's true of the (ARM-based) Surface RT. It's not true of the forthcoming (x86-based) Surface Pro, or any of the other non-RT Windows 8 tablets (whether forthcoming or already released).
It is, though. Except for those with enterprise licenses (and they still need to get specific permission on an app-by-app basis), programs using the Metro/Modern/Fisher Price UI can ONLY be installed via the Windows app store. There is no way around it.

True, you can still install desktop versions of software on x86-based Windows 8 tablets, but don't expect that to last too long (both from developers deciding to write only for the new UI and from the desktop UI, already being referred to as a legacy UI, being deprecated in future versions of Windows, same as MS-DOS, which is now a horribly-crippled interface that can barely run anything more than the few command line tools that Microsoft ships with it).
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:22 AM   #408
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Android has been tremendously successful on the phone side of things, but despite efforts by Google and Android licencees it seems to have struggled somewhat on the tablet side
Given that they're shifting almost million units per month of the Nexus 7 alone, I'd say Android's doing a LOT better on tablets than people are willing to admit.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:43 AM   #409
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Oh, really? Next time you go bashing around, check your facts first.
Source
Source
Sorry, but I'd take those numbers with a huge grain of salt.

First off, those are app crashes, not OS crashes. While it's extremely difficult to bring down either Android or iOs, I have personally had it happen on all my Android devices (reboots, freezes, lock-ups so bad I had to remove the battery, etc), so I know they do happen. My experience with iOS is that it happens less (once to me), but I don't have an iphone and have fewer iOS devices in the family, so my data points are fewer.

Apps, on the other hand, are easy to have crash. Code poorly. Don't follow developer guidelines. Practice poor memory management. Make undocumented UI calls.

Second, the numbers are only for apps that subscribe to the Crittercism service. They only show the normalized data set of overall app crashes. How many apps are reporting for each OS? If fewer reporting apps are available on one OS compared to the other, one much downloaded but buggy app could skew the results. No breakdown for crash reasons per OS (I consider that a huge fail in statistical analysis). Jailbroken or rooted devices are not broken out. How about the average number of people who turn off the crash reporting function in the app by OS vs number of app downloads (personally, I'd turn it off no matter which OS I was using).

All this report shows is that more Crittercism enabled apps crash on iOS than on Android for unknown reasons.




Hmmm...Crittercism requires the use of their own libraries when developing apps for either OS.
Hmmm...Crittercism is partially funded by Google.
Could this be the next round in the war between TEH GREAT EVUUULLSS???????
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:26 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by afv011 View Post
Fair enough, I'll accept that the poster was simply misinformed when posting incorrect information about Android.
I was talking of MY experience using iPad, then iPad 2, then iPad 3 and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 - YMMV.

I think the Android OS is fine. It is MORE laggy for sure. And I have had more app crashes, OS restarts on Android than iOS. The apps are just really bad in comparison to what I have on the iPad that the main thing I use the Android tablet for is the LTE hotspot. For that it's fantastic.

The Samsung is certainly a tablet, but it's no iPad. The areas that really enthuse Android fans just aren't that important to me. I've never sideloaded anything to the Android. Have no interest in loading custom Android builds.

These are just MY opinions. But given the massive disparity in usage statistics, apparently the Android devices are not used nearly as much as iOS devices by their users. I can understand why.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #411
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These are just MY opinions. But given the massive disparity in usage statistics, apparently the Android devices are not used nearly as much as iOS devices by their users. I can understand why.
I use my iOS device far more than my Android device, because it's streaming Pandora quite a bit.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:24 PM   #412
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I was talking of MY experience using iPad, then iPad 2, then iPad 3 and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 - YMMV.

I think the Android OS is fine. It is MORE laggy for sure. And I have had more app crashes, OS restarts on Android than iOS. The apps are just really bad in comparison to what I have on the iPad that the main thing I use the Android tablet for is the LTE hotspot. For that it's fantastic.
What flavor of android are you running? I bet yours is old. Earlier versions of android are known to be more laggy, but as this OS has become more mature, that is less and less an issue. Moreover, Samsung's touch wiz interface is especially known to cause lagginess. Which is probably why your Tab 10.1 is laggy. You either have to use a launcher to overcome that, or switch to another tablet.

Quote:
These are just MY opinions. But given the massive disparity in usage statistics, apparently the Android devices are not used nearly as much as iOS devices by their users. I can understand why.
Huh? Can you give a link that supports that?

If someone is using their android tablet for reading and browsing the net, while they use their iPhone mainly for calls, I bet you they are using their android device much much more than their iPhone device. And vice versa. If someone has an android phone and an iPad used for reading, I bet they use their iPad much more than their android device. It all depends on what type of device each person has and what functions they are using it for rather than on the two different ecosystems and operating systems.

At this point, with the maturation of android, there is little difference between using a great variety of apps on either iOS or android. For example, apps like Kindle, B&N, Angry Birds, email etc etc -- all work more similarly than not on these two systems. When you use them, you really are oblivious to what operating system you're on. So the main differentiation to me all comes down to hardware, overall performance, the GUI, and of course price.

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Old 11-01-2012, 06:33 PM   #413
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Given that they're shifting almost million units per month of the Nexus 7 alone, I'd say Android's doing a LOT better on tablets than people are willing to admit.
I think you may be right. The N7 and Kindle Fire have already done very well, and as the android OS becomes more mature and optimized for tablets, along with its apps, I think their market share will only increase further. Apple may like to pretend their products are so different and so they have nothing to fear, but their very litigious behavior and defensive attacks on the competition during their presentations say otherwise.

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Old 11-02-2012, 04:54 PM   #414
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Got my Mini. The size and weight are remarkable and I appreciate the amount of screen estate. I am disappointed by the screen quality, but I was fully expecting that.. It is pixellated, letters are not sharp/crisp as with high-res displays. It is like going back to an iPad 2, and for a new device released at the end of 2012 and for a premium price, well.. it's non ideal.

I *do* like the 4:3 aspect ratio. there is a lot of screen here to do stuff like reading on. It's about 10 ounces. it really does need to be picked up to believe (in terms of the weight.) I'm fairly invested (not quite the right word, but..) in the iOS app store so it's nice to be able to put games I half-heartedly tried on my iPhone (not very satisfying on a 3.5" screen) on, or to start up iAWriter, which I love. I haven't had time to actually play games or watch movies and I won't until tonight. but as a reading device (which at this size, it should be) it's pretty much a failure.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:12 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thWiggle View Post
Sorry, but I'd take those numbers with a huge grain of salt.

First off, those are app crashes, not OS crashes. While it's extremely difficult to bring down either Android or iOs, I have personally had it happen on all my Android devices (reboots, freezes, lock-ups so bad I had to remove the battery, etc), so I know they do happen. My experience with iOS is that it happens less (once to me), but I don't have an iphone and have fewer iOS devices in the family, so my data points are fewer.

Apps, on the other hand, are easy to have crash. Code poorly. Don't follow developer guidelines. Practice poor memory management. Make undocumented UI calls.

Second, the numbers are only for apps that subscribe to the Crittercism service. They only show the normalized data set of overall app crashes. How many apps are reporting for each OS? If fewer reporting apps are available on one OS compared to the other, one much downloaded but buggy app could skew the results. No breakdown for crash reasons per OS (I consider that a huge fail in statistical analysis). Jailbroken or rooted devices are not broken out. How about the average number of people who turn off the crash reporting function in the app by OS vs number of app downloads (personally, I'd turn it off no matter which OS I was using).

All this report shows is that more Crittercism enabled apps crash on iOS than on Android for unknown reasons.




Hmmm...Crittercism requires the use of their own libraries when developing apps for either OS.
Hmmm...Crittercism is partially funded by Google.
Could this be the next round in the war between TEH GREAT EVUUULLSS???????
Can MicroSoft save the Day?????
And what of RIM, can it return from the grave????

Tune in tomorrow for another episode of "The OSes of Our Lives"
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:17 AM   #416
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Alright. I was undecided and I've been a very vocal hater on the non-retina screen, but I change my vote to Yes, I'm keeping it. I kinda love it. I don't love the slightly blurry font and I *do* notice it whenever I read anything or even look at apps on the home screen, but it's so thin and light and I love that everything on my iPhone transitions so easily onto the iPad. and it's a great device for Facetime. I do think it's actually a bit bigger than I'd like--I like the screen estate, but it's not comfortable to hold one-handed for me very well as I have small hands BUT I like the way web pages show, etc. I think it's quite interesting that Apple went with a 7.9inch screen significantly larger than the competition.. it's definitely nice for screen real estate but it makes it less portable (yes, it's very thin and light and very portable, BUT if the whole point of a 7" device is portability, well, some could view the screen size as a negative--and I've noticed people on other forums who do think that it is a negative in a device meant to be portable) and in some ways I think it makes cannibalization of the full-sized iPad even more likely. In fact, I don't miss the screen size of the full iPad at all while using this. it's a great size for browsing the web, reading, playing games. and I certainly don't miss the weight.

I'm almost starting to think Apple won't put Retina in just to be contrary/save costs/and try to make the bigger iPad more special. Because honestly, the bigger iPad does not seem that special to me in comparison right now. Other than the retina. and the speed, yes--I've had one big game app crash on me, sadly, and web pages don't render very quickly, I bet iPad 4 and iPhone 5 do a lot better in that regard.. but again, there's a tradeoff here and the trade off is way better browsing device than iPhone and WAY lighter than iPad.

I know this is not the device for the "technologically savvy." but you know what.. just using it for a few hours I fell in love with it. It's what I wanted the bigger iPad to be. A perfect device for browsing and reading (okay, other than the poor resolution). Again I might've been happier with just a slightly smaller device but I certainly can't complain about the weight. And I just used it for a good 2.5 hours or so, using Facetime for at least an hour and a half of that time, downloading apps, writing, browsing, reading, and my battery life is at 80%. I've seen in reviews that people are getting close to 13 hours of battery life. THAT. is. amazing. and that's the tradeoff for the non-retina screen.. but for a first gen product I'm going to live with it and sell it next year when hopefully a retina mini 2 comes out with better specs. The nice thing about apple is that it holds value really well. I expect I can sell this for $250 on Craigslist next year with some good care.

Era: this was a post made by me not others.

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Old 11-03-2012, 02:24 PM   #417
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I guess I didn't specify that my post was my own but apparently there was a complaint about calling the resolution shit*y instead of poor. I'm a little taken aback by that haha but I can be more careful in the future.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:04 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by seajewel View Post
Alright. I was undecided and I've been a very vocal hater on the non-retina screen, but I change my vote to Yes, I'm keeping it. I kinda love it. I don't love the slightly blurry font and I *do* notice it whenever I read anything
Which reading apps have you tried?
Does any of them let you install arbitrary TrueType fonts? Some reading apps let you tweak font rendering for different displays. Also, some fonts look better at different sizes or even on different type of displays. (For example, on a 5/6in SVGA eink screen Georgia looks great but the same font file on the same reading app loks less great on a similar-res LCD, where Garamond, Bookman, or Century look better than Georgia.

(XGA shouldn't be unbearable at 8in; I lived for years on an XGA 10in tabletPC and text looked great on MSReader and fine on Mobipocket, Kindle, and Coolreader for PC. There ought to be a tweak somewhere...)
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:05 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by seajewel View Post
I think it's quite interesting that Apple went with a 7.9inch screen significantly larger than the competition.. it's definitely nice for screen real estate but it makes it less portable (yes, it's very thin and light and very portable, BUT if the whole point of a 7" device is portability, well, some could view the screen size as a negative--and I've noticed people on other forums who do think that it is a negative in a device meant to be portable) and in some ways I think it makes cannibalization of the full-sized iPad even more likely.
Yes, portability is both a matter of weight and size. And I think size trumps weight slightly. While the Mini is impressive in terms of weight, its footprint is significantly larger than the 7" tablets, making it less portable.

As for the 7.9" diagonal screen, what I gathered from this thread is that Apple was pretty much locked into something around that size, unless they wanted to create an entirely new standard for their iOS tablets which would have necessitated every single tablet app to come out with a brand new version to accommodate it. So they were limited to either 1064 x 768 -OR- 2048 x 1536. The question then became what screen diagonal to use. If they made it 7" diagonal, they would have ended up with a tablet that was actually shorter in height than the 7" tablets, given their locked in 4:3 screen ratio. Not good from a marketing standpoint. The touch target also shrinks then, making it harder to navigate and making Jobs' concerns about the need for sandpaper somewhat valid. So once Apple decided to play in this market for smaller tablets, they didn't have much choice.

Android is a lot more flexible as it can scale the OS graphics according to display resolution.

--Pat

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Old 11-04-2012, 07:14 AM   #420
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Which reading apps have you tried?
Does any of them let you install arbitrary TrueType fonts? Some reading apps let you tweak font rendering for different displays.
AFAIK, you can't install your own font into any of the reading apps in either iOS or android. Most of them do give you a choice of font style and size, but that only goes so far. It can't make a low ppi screen appear much better.

Having said that, the third party reading apps in android give you much more flexibility in terms of formatting and page styles. In iOS you're pretty much stuck with iBooks or Stanza which have limited options. So you're more likely to be able to customize your reading page to your particular needs more easily in android than on an Apple device.

--Pat

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