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Old 10-02-2014, 05:14 PM   #1
Antoinekamel
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Suffering is part of life

Suffering is part of life. Some would even say it is the major part of it. And for other some, it's its definition.
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Old 10-02-2014, 05:51 PM   #2
crich70
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I don't know that suffering is the definition of life but would we really value the achievement if there wasn't a struggle to reach it? For example say someone wanted to be a millionaire and someone else just came along and gave them a million dollars, would the money have any real meaning then? Oh sure it might buy a lot of things, but having to work for something gives it value beyond what the world sees it as having. So I think that while suffering might not define life it does add value to our achievements.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:42 PM   #3
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I wouldn't say suffering is life itself... Personally I belief life on Earth could be heavenly or hellish. I myself have suffered much (much more than you'd imagine). I've also had moments... many moments sublime--heavenly you could say. What suffering has taught me is to treasure the beautiful moments and hold loved ones dear. Also, it's taught me to love myself--be compassionate to myself as much as possible. If I truly believed life was suffering... merely suffering I wouldn't be striving for spiritual experiences, I wouldn't be using my creativity in random and varied ways and I wouldn't be listening to The Best of Rachmaninov right now. I'd merely be enduring and regretting much--the passing of time and past decisions.

Suffering is definitely part of life on Earth, but it doesn't have to define us. We could reach for beautiful moments and the beauty within us daily. Even being kind to a stranger (an honest and humble one) is an act of beauty, in my opinion.

Namaste. : )
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:46 PM   #4
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I don't know that suffering is the definition of life but would we really value the achievement if there wasn't a struggle to reach it? For example say someone wanted to be a millionaire and someone else just came along and gave them a million dollars, would the money have any real meaning then? Oh sure it might buy a lot of things, but having to work for something gives it value beyond what the world sees it as having. So I think that while suffering might not define life it does add value to our achievements.
I think that the idea that suffering adds value to achievement is patent BS. Should I be less proud of my children because I haven't suffered in making them (in fact I seem to recall that part was enjoyable!) or bringing them up? Less importantly, I'm proud of my achievements at work. None of them caused me suffering.

We might be straying into P&R territory, but this smacks of religious nutjobbery to me - Jesus suffered for us, so any achievement without suffering is devalued, right? Sorry, if you want to make yourself miserable by believing that, then go ahead, but don't expect anybody else to buy into it.

Last edited by Bilbo1967; 10-02-2014 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:41 PM   #5
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I think that the idea that suffering adds value to achievement is patent BS. Should I be less proud of my children because I haven't suffered in making them (in fact I seem to recall that part was enjoyable!) or bringing them up? Less importantly, I'm proud of my achievements at work. None of them caused me suffering.

We might be straying into P&R territory, but this smacks of religious nutjobbery to me - Jesus suffered for us, so any achievement without suffering is devalued, right? Sorry, if you want to make yourself miserable by believing that, then go ahead, but don't expect anybody else to buy into it.
I didn't say that every achievement must have suffering, nor did I say it had to be a deeply painful experience to count. Please do not put words in my mouth. And who said I was trying to make myself miserable? I was just saying that there is satisfaction in achievement even though there is often some element of suffering involved. I mean do you think those who have scaled Mt. Everest didn't suffer at all while doing it for example? Yet they did it despite that. It's not like they took an escalator to the top while in a temperature/atmosphere controlled environment. They had to deal with a lot of things and had the satisfaction of having done it despite what they suffered.
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:16 AM   #6
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I didn't say that every achievement must have suffering, nor did I say it had to be a deeply painful experience to count. Please do not put words in my mouth.
I don't think I suggested that you did. Please don't put words in my mouth! I was arguing against your statement that;

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So I think that while suffering might not define life it does add value to our achievements.
You then modified your statement to;

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Originally Posted by crich70 View Post
I was just saying that there is satisfaction in achievement even though there is often some element of suffering involved.
If all you are saying is that you can take pride in achievement despite suffering, then, yes, I agree. But, you very clearly stated that suffering adds value to achievements (see above). That's what I disagree with. Perhaps you could clarify which of those two you actually mean? They're really quite different.

Last edited by Bilbo1967; 10-03-2014 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 10-04-2014, 07:23 PM   #7
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I don't call mentally challenging yourself suffering. If you work hard and learn to enjoy it, you will become content with it soon enough as long as you put 100% into it.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:11 PM   #8
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[...]say someone wanted to be a millionaire and someone else just came along and gave them a million dollars, would the money have any real meaning then?
Only reproducing the Karma message, since the discussion above: I use this logic for coping with life sometimes. Even existing is a miracle when preterit sufferings come to memory deliberately in times os despair.

Thanks for sharing your view, it's recomforting to see a brain partner.

BTW, Japhy, in Dharma Booms, by Jack Kerouac, said: "Be cool, bad karma automatically generates good karma."
That's another thing I try to believe.

Last edited by Antoinekamel; 10-05-2014 at 09:14 PM. Reason: jack kerouac
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