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Old 10-17-2012, 02:51 AM   #46
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Desktop computers are becoming dinosaurs.. how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.? DeskTop computers are like 1955 Buick's.. If anyone has a DeskTop they are way behind the times.. throw your DeskTop in that dumpster behind your house for the Garbage man to pick up.. or unless you have a iMac with the computer built into the screen.. I like controversy so that is my opinion.
Some reasons to prefer a desktop instead of laptop:
-processor power. Compiling large programs on a laptop can take a while.
-temperature. Producers of laptops clock the components to the max to compete, which makes the hardware run hot. A desktop is cooler than a laptop, so you can use the hardware more efficient
-price. The cheapest upgrades and hardware are made for desktops.
-expandability. A desktop can easily be expanded if you need new hardware. With a laptop, adding hardware is difficult.
-noise. My laptop is extremely noisy. It has these small fans to save space. The fans are so small that they need to run fast to push enough air, and making a lot of noise in the process. My desktop is very quiet. I can even turn off all the fans if I need to have it totally quiet.
-control. If you have special needs, e.g. Error-correcting ram, water cooling or a powerful processor combined with a cheap graphics card, then it would be difficult to find a laptop or even a commercial desktop to meet your specifications. You may have to build it yourself.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:58 AM   #47
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As for the OS, this *is* "real" Windows
Microsoft has proven, over and over again, that they are unable/unwilling to make an OS suitable for being connected to the internet. In my opinion, Windows on a tablet is a paradox. Tablets have the smallest and weakest processors to save power and keep the temperatures on acceptable levels, yet a lot of the capacity of the CPU will be used for anti-virus? Say, what's the meaning of that?
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:34 AM   #48
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Microsoft has proven, over and over again, that they are unable/unwilling to make an OS suitable for being connected to the internet. In my opinion, Windows on a tablet is a paradox. Tablets have the smallest and weakest processors to save power and keep the temperatures on acceptable levels, yet a lot of the capacity of the CPU will be used for anti-virus? Say, what's the meaning of that?
False premise.

I've had no serious need to install AV on a Windows box in several years. The built-in support has been good enough. When I have installed, it's been Security Essentials, which has always been lightweight, unlike Norton. My machines practically live on the net.

The truth of the matter is that most processors go unused until you play something truly intensive or do something like transcoding, in which case you are likely only trying to do that one thing. Web doesn't really touch a CPU that much.

Significant internal work has gone on internally (this is public knowledge as of Win7) to detangle certain thread-scheduling issues. Further, the app lifecycle model for modern apps is very different from prior win32 apps -- more like the winphone's. When you switch focus, they go into suspension and so don't consume CPU. Background activity is something you grant permission for. Further, the APIs have been made heavily asynchronous, making it more difficult for devs to write code that locks up the UI thread.

As a metric, the machine I'm on is running an i5. I presently have 6 web pages open, 4 other modern apps open (Adera [a game], Kindle, OneNote MX, News) and Outlook 2013 preview running in the legacy desktop. I have both DropBox and SkyDrive clients active. Visual Studio is also running.

This is well in excess of a typical user. My UX is not blinking at all on this. Streaming Netflix HD over WiFi is no challenge.

Last edited by kfarmer; 10-17-2012 at 03:37 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:38 AM   #49
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The screen from the Pro version: FullHD.

Right now, anything less on a 10in-class tablet is a minus, give that both Amazon and B&N do even better at 9in.
I was thinking that a connector to the keyboard on the side, so you can use it in portrait mode while typing, is the clincher for great. That to me is what is lacking, if it had that I just might have been game.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:43 AM   #50
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I was thinking that a connector to the keyboard on the side, so you can use it in portrait mode while typing, is the clincher for great. That to me is what is lacking, if it had that I just might have been game.
Can't help you there, except to say that the onscreen keyboard's been all I've used since Build last year. International layouts are supported and the simplified keyboard has most of the international set already bound.

I tend to spend about equal time in landscape vs portrait.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:56 AM   #51
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Can't help you there, except to say that the onscreen keyboard's been all I've used since Build last year. International layouts are supported and the simplified keyboard has most of the international set already bound.

I tend to spend about equal time in landscape vs portrait.
When typing in Word it would have been a superb feature to turn it into portrait mode and have a whole page to type and do layout on. I'm sure it is well thought out and professionally implemented device. For those of us that already have 7" and 10" Android (iOS) devices, it needs something that sets it apart. A full size USB port is nice, but it takes more than that to shell out another $600 for a keyboard model. Had it been out a year ago, I might not have owned those Android devices.

Ohh, and the kickstand on the back should be rotateable so you can stand it in portrait mode as well. Imagine reading on something like that. To me it seems the engineers has had a field day, the liberal arts people, not so much.

Last edited by Kumabjorn; 10-17-2012 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:04 AM   #52
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When typing in Word it would have been a superb feature to turn it into portrait mode and have a whole page to type and do layout on.
A portrait dock would be interesting but I think would require a different design. I could see a third party niche for one (a side-docking frame) but it'd be odd.

As a cheap alternative you could put it in a simple document holder and use a full-size bluetooth keyboard and mouse perhaps?
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:41 AM   #53
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Desktop computers are becoming dinosaurs.. how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.?
Because they're much cheaper.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:48 AM   #54
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Regarding comments about resolution:
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Hey this is Stevie. Screen resolution is one component of perceived detail. The true measure of resolvability of a screen called Modulation Transfer Function (MTF), not Pixels. MTF is a combination of both contrast and resolution. There are over a dozen subsystems that effect this MTF number.. Most folks just focus on one number out of dozens that effect perceived detail. Without good contrast resolution decreases. Check out contrast sensitivity of the human eye graph (http://www.telescope-optics.net/images/eye_contrast.PNG) and if you want more see the links below. Basically, as resolution/DPI increases the eye has becomes less sensitive. So as a result, the amount of light in a room and the reflections off the screen have a huge effect on the contrast of the display. In fact, a small amount of reflection can greatly reduce contrast and thus the perceived resolution of the display. With the ClearType Display technology we took a 3 pronged approach to maximize that perceived resolution and optimize for battery life, weight, and thickness. First prong, Microsoft has the best pixel rendering technology in the industry (cleartype 1.0 and 2.0) .. these are exclusive and unique to Windows, it smooths text regardless of pixel count. Second, we designed a custom 10.6” high-contrast wide-angle screen LCD screen. Lastly we optically bonded the screen with the thinnest optical stack anywhere on the market.. something which is more commonly done on phones we are doing on Surface. While this is not official, our current Cleartype measurements on the amount of light reflected off the screen is around 5.5%-6.2%, the new IPad has a measurement of 9.9% mirror reflections (see the displaymate link: http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm). Doing a side by side with the new iPad in a consistently lit room, we have had many people see more detail on Surface RT than on the Ipad with more resolution.
What a load of PR junk.
I'd love to see the independent side by side tests that showed more detail on a 1366x768 screen than on a 2048x1536 one, rather than Microsoft's carefully staged ones.
Imagine the ridicule we would have seen if Apple had said the quoted paragraph.
"Even though it has half the resolution, our new screen is magical and shows you more detail anyway!"

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Old 10-17-2012, 07:10 AM   #55
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The choreography is good but it is a bit cheesy, isn't it? I prefer the one that accompanied the original press announcement this past summer.
Cheesy? We live in a timeline that is gaga over "Gangnam style".
I shudder to think things could get worse...
('scuse me while I go shoo those kids off my lawn...)
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:21 AM   #56
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I was thinking that a connector to the keyboard on the side, so you can use it in portrait mode while typing, is the clincher for great. That to me is what is lacking, if it had that I just might have been game.
That should work.
I'd be shocked if they hadn't included drivers for generic USB keyboards.

We already know it will work with thumbdrives and external hard drives through the full-size USB2.0 port so keyboards should work. Driver availability for USB devices is going to be crucial here.
Being able to plug in USB scanners and printers would elevate the Surface RT above media consumption tablets into real PC territory like the Surface Pro to come. (And other Win 8 tablets.) Hopefully reviewers will do their homework and review the new tablets as PCs rather than merely as media pads.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:27 AM   #57
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As a cheap alternative you could put it in a simple document holder and use a full-size bluetooth keyboard and mouse perhaps?
The document holder is a good suggestion.
But with USB host on the thing there is no need to spend for Bluetooth; any old USB keyboard should work.

Part of the hidden value in the surface tablets is you don't *need* a dock.
The basic $499 tablet can hook up to monitors and keyboards and hard drives without a dock. No hidden cost there beyond a USB host if you need more than one. A USB keyboard with built-in hub would be a good match for "homebase" desktop use.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:36 AM   #58
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This will receive a $100 price reduction before Christmas...mark my words. Those who preorder will retroactively receive the discount. It's priced $100 too high.

Pros:
$40 cheaper than 32 GB Ipad with cover (640 vs 600)
Surface cover actually does something useful so I'd say there is a $100 benefit (640 vs 500)
Ipad has superior hardware (battery life probably, screen, Apple vs msft, etc) (500 vs 500)
Surface has MS Office for free. At least a $100 benefit in my mind. (500 vs 400).
Surface has better connectors and has SD slot, etc (500 vs 370)
Ipad has a hellalot more apps. what is this worth?...increases functionality of the device immeasurably....worth probably $200. (300 vs 370)

So there you have it, the Surface is priced $70 above the Ipad after adjusting for customer value factors. The Surface needs a $100 price reduction to compete with the Ipad.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:17 AM   #59
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Ipad has superior hardware (battery life probably, screen,
Don't assume that a smaller battery means noticeably less battery life; a lot of the extra capacity of the New iPad monster battery goes to feeding the display. Let's wait on the reviews there, okay?

As for the OSes, do remember that RT is still Windows. NT micro-kernel core, true pre-emptive multi-tasking, multi-threading, etc. More OSX than iOS. The 2GB RAM isn't there to run fart emulators. The thing is a full PC (not a scaled up cellphone); just one that runs on an ARM-based CPU.
It'll take a while to see its full potential bloom, as it'll take 3rd party developers time to update their Windows apps to Win8 apis but when they do all Win8 apps will run on RT.
I'm thinking it'll be a while before Mac Apps run on iPad or Linux Apps on Android.

We're looking at a something really new under the sun, guys. That's why assessing value is going to be hard.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:34 AM   #60
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Don't assume that a smaller battery means noticeably less battery life; a lot of the extra capacity of the New iPad monster battery goes to feeding the display. Let's wait on the reviews there, okay?
Battery life is in the Technical Specs: 8 hours vs. 10 for the iPad. I hope the Pro can do better. I'm dreaming... I know....
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