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Old 10-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #16
petermillard
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The full MS Office is a *big* plus...
Appears to be just a preview version of Office Home & Student that ships initially, final Office version to be installed via Windows Update 'when available' - no indication when that might be.

source

Bit of a choker if folks are ordering these expecting to be productive from day 1 :/
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #17
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Not all.
Some of the better (read: more expensive) Android tablets do but the Ipad only has the proprietary connector. The Surface has actual onboard ports, including USB host., and micro SD support. CNN reports it also has MIMO Wifi-N, like the FireHD but unlike the iPad.
While iPad has a proprietary connector, it can none-the-less output video to an external display. Both wired and wirelessly.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #18
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Not all.

As I said, there is good value in the Surface RT. Just not *great* value.
What would it need to be a grrreat value?
I like the ease of the snap-on, snap-off keyboard/cover.
I won't be getting one though, but I'm curious as to what it takes to be upgraded from good to great.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #19
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What would it need to be a grrreat value?
I like the ease of the snap-on, snap-off keyboard/cover.
I won't be getting one though, but I'm curious as to what it takes to be upgraded from good to great.
The screen from the Pro version: FullHD.

Right now, anything less on a 10in-class tablet is a minus, give that both Amazon and B&N do even better at 9in.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:55 PM   #20
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Appears to be just a preview version of Office Home & Student that ships initially, final Office version to be installed via Windows Update 'when available' - no indication when that might be.

source

Bit of a choker if folks are ordering these expecting to be productive from day 1 :/
Office 2013 hit RTM a few days ago. That doesn't tell you *when* it'll hit Windows Update, but it does indicate that sooner is a reasonable expectation. Based on personal experience, a raw install of Office takes a remarkably small amount of time (it'll be usable while it's still streaming bits for installation).

I've been using the preview version of Office 2013 for quite some time now, exclusively. There has been no productivity impact.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:00 PM   #21
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Regarding comments about resolution:

There was a good general Q/A with the product team earlier: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...face_amaa_ask/

There were as you might expect questions about the choice in screen resolution. Here was a good response:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...aa_ask/c6ndm9j

Quote:
Hey I tried to answer this resolution question for another post, but it got stuck.. So I will try here:

Hey this is Stevie. Screen resolution is one component of perceived detail. The true measure of resolvability of a screen called Modulation Transfer Function (MTF), not Pixels. MTF is a combination of both contrast and resolution. There are over a dozen subsystems that effect this MTF number.. Most folks just focus on one number out of dozens that effect perceived detail. Without good contrast resolution decreases. Check out contrast sensitivity of the human eye graph (http://www.telescope-optics.net/images/eye_contrast.PNG) and if you want more see the links below. Basically, as resolution/DPI increases the eye has becomes less sensitive. So as a result, the amount of light in a room and the reflections off the screen have a huge effect on the contrast of the display. In fact, a small amount of reflection can greatly reduce contrast and thus the perceived resolution of the display. With the ClearType Display technology we took a 3 pronged approach to maximize that perceived resolution and optimize for battery life, weight, and thickness. First prong, Microsoft has the best pixel rendering technology in the industry (cleartype 1.0 and 2.0) .. these are exclusive and unique to Windows, it smooths text regardless of pixel count. Second, we designed a custom 10.6” high-contrast wide-angle screen LCD screen. Lastly we optically bonded the screen with the thinnest optical stack anywhere on the market.. something which is more commonly done on phones we are doing on Surface. While this is not official, our current Cleartype measurements on the amount of light reflected off the screen is around 5.5%-6.2%, the new IPad has a measurement of 9.9% mirror reflections (see the displaymate link: http://www.displaymate.com/iPad_ShootOut_1.htm). Doing a side by side with the new iPad in a consistently lit room, we have had many people see more detail on Surface RT than on the Ipad with more resolution.

Some more links to share if you want to know more… (http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html)... Also This is a great book to read if you really want to get into it: http://www.amazon.com/Contrast-Sensi.../dp/0819434965 or more here http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra2/9901043.pdf
It may or may not bear much weight here, of course -- the dynamics of rendering text for long-term active reading is different from that of rendering general graphics with text mixed in.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:01 PM   #22
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Amazon won't sell the Kindle Fire to me, so that's a non-issue.

I haven't been tempted by the iPad, but this does tempt me because it's Windows and I love that keyboard cover. I have no need for it atm, but if I didn't already have a desktop and a new laptop, I'd be very tempted to buy this to replace the laptop.
Desktop computers are becoming dinosaurs.. how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.? DeskTop computers are like 1955 Buick's.. If anyone has a DeskTop they are way behind the times.. throw your DeskTop in that dumpster behind your house for the Garbage man to pick up.. or unless you have a iMac with the computer built into the screen.. I like controversy so that is my opinion.

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Old 10-16-2012, 09:10 PM   #23
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As for the OS, this *is* "real" Windows, same as the Intel. It does differs in that it was built for ARM, so native applications are of course practically non-existant, but given the target market (couch-surfers) that's not a particular hardship -- the apps in the Store have done very well to keep me occupied (Netflix finally shipped their first version, Kindle has long been available, etc). You still have access to the regular desktop, command console, etc. I haven't attempted installing Calibre on the ARM build of Win8 (I speculate it'd work with an ARM build of python, but I also speculate that it'd be better as a Modern/Windows Store app). I have Kindle installed on my Samsung Series 7 with Win8 (Intel).

Disclaimer: I have not yet been allowed to *handle* a Surface device. I hope to own one soon, however.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:11 PM   #24
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Desktop computers are becoming dinosaurs.. how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.? DeskTop computers are like 1955 Buick's.. If anyone has a DeskTop they are way behind the times.. throw your DeskTop in that dumpster behind your house for the Garbage man to pick up..
The major good thing about desktop "boxes" is they can normally be easily repaired by swapping parts. And for the most part that can not be said about laptops or similar computers. And for the main part the desktop can have way more "horsepower" under the hood than "any" other form factor computer.

If the video card on your laptop/tablet goes out , what do you do? for example! At least with the desktop you can r&r the bad part.

And the list goes on......

Edit: I may pay the freight if you want to throw your "dinosaur" away!

Just list the make/model/ram/ etc, etc. etc, I may be interested.


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Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 PM   #25
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how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.?
Power gamers and professional computer users. Laptops don't stand up to long-term comfort or high-end graphics power compared to the big boxes.

/GEEK ALERT/

Now.. "desktop" I agree is quaint.

My old desktop was turned into my study. I don't mean that I placed my desktop into my study -- I mean that I wrapped my desktop around the room.

Wall-mounted 40-ish inch primary display, in-wall cables to my PC mounted against a separate wall (sorta -- it's on a bookshelf, so I can see the color-changing fan LEDs.. Antec Skeleton case is cool), with a 22in secondary monitor on a wooden lattice box in the *middle* of the room, next to which is my chair. A 7in touch screen sits next to it. Wireless kb and mouse are hooked up there, as well as cue:Cat, and other USB.

Inside the box is some river rock, scented pine cones, and a yellow LED lamp in a large diffusing globe. Behind the primary monitor are more LEDs. The lights are controlled by Z-wave, and a Homeseer installation on one of our servers in the garage. When I turn off the lights, the room is in screen saver

Surrounding all is my old desk (for certain projects, no longer cluttered by computer equipment), lots of bookcases, and artwork.

Overall, it's leant the experience to a more casual, more ambient computing scenario.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:23 PM   #26
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The major good thing about desktop "boxes" is they can normally be easily repaired by swapping parts. And for the most part that can not be said about laptops or similar computers. And for the main part the desktop can have way more "horsepower" under the hood than "any" other form factor computer.

If the video card on your laptop/tablet goes out , what do you do? for example! At least with the desktop you can r&r the bad part.

And the list goes on......

Edit: I may pay the freight if you want to throw your "dinosaur" away!

Just list the make/model/ram/ etc, etc. etc, I may be interested.

I threw my DeskTop away 3 yrs ago.. LapTops and Tablets now.. without any problems.. and saved much space in my house and office.. plus portable..
but I do agree that all have Pros and Cons. all fun stuff..
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:43 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by DustyDisks View Post
The major good thing about desktop "boxes" is they can normally be easily repaired by swapping parts. And for the most part that can not be said about laptops or similar computers. And for the main part the desktop can have way more "horsepower" under the hood than "any" other form factor computer.

If the video card on your laptop/tablet goes out , what do you do? for example! At least with the desktop you can r&r the bad part.

And the list goes on......

Edit: I may pay the freight if you want to throw your "dinosaur" away!

Just list the make/model/ram/ etc, etc. etc, I may be interested.

This fits with the car analogy too. Modern automobiles have chips and whatnot that make them more difficult to repair than their counterparts in decades past. Same thing happened to TVs and other electronics.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:01 PM   #28
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Desktop computers are becoming dinosaurs.. how and who would ever in today's world buy a DeskTop computer.?
People who want bargain prices! You can get a lot more for your money buying a desk top.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:32 PM   #29
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People who want bargain prices! You can get a lot more for your money buying a desk top.
Or if you're into control, *building* your own desktop.

On the matter of Surface, I'm keeping my options open but I'm more likely to go with Surface Pro than Surface RT. If I'm going to drop $500 on a tablet, I might as well drop $800 and get a real TabletPC with pen support and legacy Windows apps.
As a past (and very satisfied) user of WindowsCE-based HPC Pros and PocketPCs I appreciate how much better ever "crippled" Windows OSes are than competitors coming out of the cellphone world. But I'm also a believer in optimized devices and in today's market that pushes me out of the middle ground: both upwards to full PC power and down to pure media consumption.

Of course, if the Pro comes in at $999 I might rethink the RT...

And then, it is worth remembering that the Surface RT & Pro are not the only tablets in the Windows stable. Maybe one of the OEMs will rise to the Surface Challenge and hit my sweet spot with *their* design. The Lenovo Pro or the HP, maybe.

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Old 10-16-2012, 11:03 PM   #30
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One of the worst commercials ever made...I actually felt myself losing IQ points while watching it.
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