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Old 10-24-2012, 12:34 PM   #106
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Having for years been a source of books to my extended family (certain books I've ended up buying second copies for myself after the originals have been beat up by others) we are now in the situation where such lending is no longer possible, life goes on...

But having seen complaints saying "I'd never lend an ereader because 'they'd have access to my account' " I have a rather dumb question, don't these eReaders have parental control? After all the flack Apple's taken over in-app purchases etc. Shouldn't there be something like that in all the various eReaders? (I really don't know, I've never even tried to make a purchase from my kobo)

For that matter if one was to get literal about the licenses, shouldn't it be illegal for your spouse to pick up YOUR e-reader and read never mind having multiple ereaders on the same account?

I do not begrudge the authors their pittance, but I'd really like to see a cost break down between Hardcover / Paperback / eBooks. Have they left the ebook prices as high as they are to account for 'shrinkage' ?

And am I the only one thinking 'drug dealer' when I see a publisher offering the first book in a long series for free just to get you hooked...

But back to the original question, I too remember "Personal Lending" being bandied about, it would be nice; but for me and obviously a lot of consumers, not a deal breaker. (My sisters going to have to find her own copy of Notorious Nineteen...)
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:06 PM   #107
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Anyone with physical access to my Touch could buy books with it. There is no parental control. Of course, that's only books from the Kobo store and only to my account, but it could still be potentially annoying.

I remember seeing a well-written cost breakdown of the publishing game by an independent sort a while back. Wish to god I'd bookmarked it. Anyways, it turns out that while yes, ebook costs are lower, they are not nearly as lower as you'd think. The physical parts of the process don't make up nearly as much of the final cost as I'd expected.

As for the "drug dealer" technique, it's a classic. Think it's called "loss leader" in more "respectable" circles. I think it's an awesome idea, personally.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #108
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How about an Intellectual Property Lawyer. He/she could tell you how the case law has worked.
Whether the T&Cs could be enforced is a separate issue. I'm interested in what the retailers will say that their T&Cs mean.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:42 PM   #109
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For that matter if one was to get literal about the licenses, shouldn't it be illegal for your spouse to pick up YOUR e-reader and read never mind having multiple ereaders on the same account?
That is precisely what Kobo has said applies to books bought from them.
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:59 PM   #110
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On the issue of DRM, when you connect your reader to a Adobe Digital Edition account so that you may download DRM'd ebooks, what happens when you try and sell your reader ? I mean can the new buyer still use it ? won't ADE refuse to let it use the reader on a different DRM account ?
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:29 PM   #111
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On the issue of DRM, when you connect your reader to a Adobe Digital Edition account so that you may download DRM'd ebooks, what happens when you try and sell your reader ? I mean can the new buyer still use it ? won't ADE refuse to let it use the reader on a different DRM account ?
As far as I know, you can just register it to the new Adobe ID.

What can happen is that you use enough different devices that you run out of authorisations, and you have to ask Adobe to reset your limit.
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #112
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Sorry I was discussing this in another thread.
But yeah I was wondering that. Otherwise people cannot buy second hand readers and buy DRM books with it.

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As far as I know, you can just register it to the new Adobe ID.

What can happen is that you use enough different devices that you run out of authorisations, and you have to ask Adobe to reset your limit.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:18 PM   #113
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And am I the only one thinking 'drug dealer' when I see a publisher offering the first book in a long series for free just to get you hooked...
Baen has refered to their Free Library as 'crack for readers'.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #114
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Having read through all the responses in this thread, I am quickly resigning myself to the fact that ebook lending will not be coming to my Kobo anytime soon.That is a little disappointing as I would like to lend some books to my sister. I guess I will have to gift her some books every now and then or else tell her that she will have to pony up the cash and buy them herself!
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:19 AM   #115
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I remember seeing a well-written cost breakdown of the publishing game by an independent sort a while back. Wish to god I'd bookmarked it. Anyways, it turns out that while yes, ebook costs are lower, they are not nearly as lower as you'd think. The physical parts of the process don't make up nearly as much of the final cost as I'd expected.
There've been a few of those; they're all disingenuous. They list the breakdown for editorial, formatting, etc. side by side... but they don't say whether the ebook costs are *in addition to* the print costs.

If they're already publishing a print edition, they don't have to pay the editors twice; it's a matter of something between minutes and a few hours to format the book properly for ebook release.

Those cost breakdowns also say nothing about backlist books, where the editing and marketing is already done. They don't need an ad campaign to push Book 3 of a series that's on Book 10; they just need to make it available, and newcomers to the series will snap it up.

They also very, very carefully don't mention scale. Editing is a fixed cost--it's per book released, not per unit sale. Paper and distribution costs per book--whether they sell 10 books or 10,000, each one will have a paper cost. Editing gets cheaper per unit the higher the sales are. All their numbers presumed a flat amount of sales, which they didn't release. Editing doesn't cost "12% of the cover price" of a million-book bestseller.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:41 PM   #116
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There've been a few of those; they're all disingenuous. They list the breakdown for editorial, formatting, etc. side by side... but they don't say whether the ebook costs are *in addition to* the print costs.

If they're already publishing a print edition, they don't have to pay the editors twice; it's a matter of something between minutes and a few hours to format the book properly for ebook release.
Of you can look at it and say they are already paying the editor for the eBook, so the paper book should be cheaper...

But you rightly identify the issue; there are fixed costs and variable costs and in all the analyses. they treat everything on a per book basis as if it were variable. Indeed, I would suggest that very few costs related to book production are variable. Even printing is done on a batch basis, so a longer run is cheaper per book.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #117
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Having read through all the responses in this thread, I am quickly resigning myself to the fact that ebook lending will not be coming to my Kobo anytime soon.That is a little disappointing as I would like to lend some books to my sister. I guess I will have to gift her some books every now and then or else tell her that she will have to pony up the cash and buy them herself!
(I might be flamed for saying this, but the injustice of it all compels me to risk it. )
If I were you, I would first ask myself if my sister could be trusted under the honor system. If she can, then give her a *copy when she's ready to read it, and tell her to delete it when she's finished.

*assuming you have unlocked copies for backup.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:42 PM   #118
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This link explains how book lending works with their Kindle e-readers.
When Amazon started selling Kindles with this option they were by far the largest book seller in USA giving lots of leverage with book publishers. Only a small percent of Amazon books are available for lending. I think the book publishers authorizing limited lending think of book lending as promoting book sales.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200549320

Soon after Amazon book lending began this site made it easier to borrow a book from a lender. Great for customers and further disincentive for publishers to authorize e-book lending.
http://www.booklending.com/

Many things I don't like about DRM but authors deserve opportunity to profit and make a living from their work and so do publishers.
This link is debate about how can the music biz be FIXED. Much of it applies to book authors.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10...ate/page2.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10...ate/page2.html
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:39 AM   #119
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There've been a few of those; they're all disingenuous. They list the breakdown for editorial, formatting, etc. side by side... but they don't say whether the ebook costs are *in addition to* the print costs.

If they're already publishing a print edition, they don't have to pay the editors twice; it's a matter of something between minutes and a few hours to format the book properly for ebook release.

Those cost breakdowns also say nothing about backlist books, where the editing and marketing is already done. They don't need an ad campaign to push Book 3 of a series that's on Book 10; they just need to make it available, and newcomers to the series will snap it up.

They also very, very carefully don't mention scale. Editing is a fixed cost--it's per book released, not per unit sale. Paper and distribution costs per book--whether they sell 10 books or 10,000, each one will have a paper cost. Editing gets cheaper per unit the higher the sales are. All their numbers presumed a flat amount of sales, which they didn't release. Editing doesn't cost "12% of the cover price" of a million-book bestseller.
You make a number of interesting points. However, one thing to note is this: ebooks are not a separate product stream. There is a delicate balancing act here, and the publishers, which are after all capitalist businesses, are airing on the side of caution.

What's impossible to tell is: how many ebook sales are in addition to the number of physical books you would sell, and how many are in place of physical books? While I'm sure some ebook purchases happen where people pick up a book they might not have before due to the ease of purchase, or the ability to read a preview... for the most part people are getting a book they would have earlier bought in physical form.

So the publishers are, quite legitimately, worried about ebook sales cannibalizing their other product lines. When you talk about the ebook costs being already covered by the print run... well, guess what? They're not about to substantially discount the ebook over the print run because ebook sales are rising and it looks strongly like physical book sales will fall at the same time.

As for backlist books: that would be nice. I know from time to time publishers do discount the backlist. I remember seeing a nicely priced, $3.99 edition of book one of the Belgariad. Even that though was more a promotion, a loss-leader type of thing. Unfortunately your argument as to why the price should be lower is also why it never will be. Publishers dream of having a backlist people want to acquire. Precisely because their costs have already been covered. The longer a book stays in print, the more profitable it is.

A simple fact of the publishing world is that publishers almost never lower the prices of their product. Retailers may lower the price on a temporary basis, but publishers for the most part do not.

The only area I see where they might do lower prices is out of print books. If a book can be cheaply brought back into "print" in ebook form it might be priced accordingly.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:40 AM   #120
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But for the most part eBooks ARE cheaper than paper books (a quick check on 4 of the current best sellers put the hardcovers in the 30-40 range and the ebooks from 15 to 22, so that is a good thing, and to be honest has resulted in me buying some of the eBooks instead of borrowing from the library.

My complaint is with older books, especially when I'm trying to get an older book that is STILL in current production with a recent printing (not a reprint, but a new issue based on the printing line on the copyright page)
Same publishing house as the original so while there has been some work to create the new printing it shouldn't be at the same level of cost as the original.
Now I'd expect the eBook to be reasonable, but much to my annoyance, the eBook is exactly the same price as the paperback (8.99)

Shouldn't there be the same kind of price reduction that is found in most new books, even if it was 8.99 paperback, 6.99 eBook I'd be slightly happier, but the same price ticks me off.
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