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Old 11-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #166
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I think Engadget's review said it was Samsung.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #167
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Hmm.

Does anyone know if this is the sort of thing that can commonly be fixed with a firmware upgrade? It seems to me it would be strictly a hardware issue and unfixable, but I don't really know. Just guessing, and hoping I'm wrong.
Black level/max brightness is a panel characteristic.
It is most closely tied to the type/design of the backlighting.
It is doubtful that a software update can anything to increase the output of the backlight or the amount of bleed in black areas.
The quoted numbers don't seem to be outrageously inferior to the competition or anything like that but the golden eyeballs crowd would likely beg to differ.
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Old 11-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #168
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If you ever bought a LCD TV you know what I mean... "panel lottery" is the key phrase.
Uh-huh.
Entire (set calibration) businesses are built off those variances.

And that is when the manufacturer only uses one source of panels so the variances are solely due to batch tolerance variation and not from mixing panels from different factories or manufacturers.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #169
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People are having a hard time saying anything unequivocally good about this thing.

Engadget:
Quote:
At $400 to $500, the Nexus 10 is actually on par with many other 10-inch Android competitors -- even a little more expensive than some -- and, with average performance in most areas and sub-par battery life, it's relying on that incredibly high resolution and fresh Android build to set it apart. Sadly, neither is enough to distance this tablet from the competition.

The resolution is indeed quite nice but in many ways, the Super IPS+ panel on the ASUS Transformer Pad Infinity TF700 is even nicer, and other than that new keyboard there's nothing much in Android 4.2 to get excited about right now. Of course, the true beauty of the Nexus line is that when 4.3 rolls around this slate will be the first to get it, and that is certainly worth something. But is it worth enough to make up for this tablet's other shortcomings?
The Verge:
Quote:
But you take it out of the box, say it's beautiful and fast... then what? Apple's tablet has 250,000-plus other apps that look and work great on a huge, high-res screen, and Android's ecosystem is leagues behind. The Nexus 10 is a great way to watch movies, but there's absolutely no way it's going to replace your laptop the way the iPad could.

Yes, the Nexus 10 wins on price — $399 for this incredible display is a nice deal. But consider the extra $100 you'll spend to get the iPad an entry fee to the App Store, and its many apps and accessories that just aren't available to the Nexus 10.

Google's now proven conclusively that it can design great Android hardware, but until developers prove they can design great Android software it's still hard to recommend the Nexus 10 over an iPad.
Battery life is really poor, too. Funny how that doesn't show up on the spec sheet.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:53 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
People are having a hard time saying anything unequivocally good about this thing.

Engadget:


The Verge:

Battery life is really poor, too. Funny how that doesn't show up on the spec sheet.
Interesting differences between the Engadget review and the Verge one. Note that your 'hard time saying anything unequivocally good about this thing' comment doesn't apply to the Verge review, where they consistently praise the device itself. As noted in your quote, they are saying that it's the Google tablet ecosystem that still falls short against the iPad.

And is battery life really poor? Worse than an iPad certainly, but the low Engadget score seems at odds with the experience quoted in the Verge review, which lists it as 'great battery life' in their round up as one of the good features, along with the 'fantastic display, fast, smooth performance, and good speakers'.

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Old 11-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #171
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As noted in your quote, they are saying that it's the Google tablet ecosystem that still falls short against the iPad.
All of the carping over ecosystem is predicated on the (false) assumption that *everybody* buys tablets based on the quantity of apps.

That one is getting torpedoed right now by the good-to-great sales (depending on your perceptions) of the Microsoft Surface RT which "only" has 150K apps available and is selling out in some venues, drawing respectable lines at B&M stores, and getting generally good reviews for everything except the abundance of apps.

The problem is, of course, that everybody *doesn't* buy tablets (or anything) for just one feature. *Every* product is a trade-off of good things and bad and the trade-off and the buy/no-buy decision will depend on what that person values.

So, yeah; Android is a weak OS (as an OS) and so is iOS. How weak, Surface is making clear. Some people care, some don't.

Yeah, Android doesn't have as many different apps as iOS. But that is meaningless as long as it has the ones *you* need. Let the other guy worry about what they need. "Live and let die".

Battery life? Some people want the highest possible number, many just want "good enough for one day". As Adam Osbourne used to say, adequacy is sufficient. Specmanship for specmanship's sake is for marketers and corporate drones who are *paid* to sell the party line.

The Nexus comes with non-expandable storage? A show stopper for some of us, a non-issue for others.

At this point of the game the important thing about reviews is finding out *facts*. Things that only living with the device will reveal. How the screen quality might compare to other FullHD-and-higher screens. Viewing angles, glare, reflections... What kind of battery life to expect. Charging speed. How good does the audio sound? Is it loud enough? Quality of build issues. Is the casing grippy or slippery? Is the weight properly distributed? Any odd ergonomic traits?

There is more to a device than Specmanship and app counting; most people just want a product that will do what they need or at least come close enough to be worth their money.

No device is perfect so we all have to make do with adequate and yes, Adequacy is sufficient. (Osbourned nailed it from day one.)

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Old 11-03-2012, 12:31 PM   #172
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Graham, when the Anandtech benchmarks are released, we will revisit the battery issue with some measure of exactitude. Nexus 4 battery life is reportedly quite poor, as well (according to Engadget once again).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres
*Every* product is a trade-off of good things and bad and the trade-off and the buy/no-buy decision will depend on what that person values.
Could not agree more.

What grates in these debates is seeing trade-offs which were once deemed unacceptable (iPhone lacking 4G) suddenly become irrelevant when other phones are concerned (Nexus 4). Or when the virtues of a device are praised without acknowledging any associated downsides.

Of course, only a small number act like this, but they are a vocal minority. Fortunately, lately they only seem to talk back and forth between themselves.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:14 PM   #173
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What grates in these debates is seeing trade-offs which were once deemed unacceptable (iPhone lacking 4G) suddenly become irrelevant when other phones are concerned (Nexus 4).
There's a difference between a $600 phone not offering LTE, and a $350 phone not offering LTE.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:04 PM   #174
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There's a difference between a $600 phone not offering LTE, and a $350 phone not offering LTE.
Of course, but that's not the argument being offered. All you and darksaber have been posting this week is that 4G is unnecessary, not widely available, useless for most people, too expensive, and a drain on battery life. May as well be cancer.

A complete 180° from a year ago.

EDIT: And let us not forget that price is not the reason 4G is not included. It is because Google has no leverage with the carriers after giving them and OEMs control over the Android ecosystem.

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Old 11-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #175
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The Nexus 4 could cost $2,000 and it still wouldn't have LTE because the carriers wouldn't let it. That's the price of selling out.
The carriers decide who gets LTE? That's news to me.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #176
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:01 AM   #177
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And is battery life really poor? Worse than an iPad certainly, but the low Engadget score seems at odds with the experience quoted in the Verge review, which lists it as 'great battery life' in their round up as one of the good features, along with the 'fantastic display, fast, smooth performance, and good speakers'.

Graham
Anandtech:



Their test, which is slightly different from Engadget's (it replicates web browsing instead of video playback) showed 8:72 of battery life. Let's say about eight hours, averaging the two. So not terrible, but not superlative. On par with or close to the 3rd gen iPad.

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Old 11-04-2012, 04:03 AM   #178
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Anandtech:



Their test, which is slightly different from Engadget's (it replicates web browsing instead of video playback) showed 8:72 of battery life. Let's say about eight hours, averaging the two. So not terrible, but not superlative. On par with or close to the 3rd gen iPad.
That sounds about right. I think some other sites were reporting about nine hours, so somewhere between 8 and 9 seems to be the mark. Not brilliant, but sufficient.

There are some odd things on the table, though. My wife gets a lot more than 6 hours on her Samsung Tab 10.1, and is that a typo up the top, or does the iPad 2 appear twice?

Graham

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Old 11-05-2012, 04:55 PM   #179
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That one is getting torpedoed right now by the good-to-great sales (depending on your perceptions) of the Microsoft Surface RT which "only" has 150K apps available and is selling out in some venues, drawing respectable lines at B&M stores, and getting generally good reviews for everything except the abundance of apps.

Yeah, Android doesn't have as many different apps as iOS. But that is meaningless as long as it has the ones *you* need. Let the other guy worry about what they need. "Live and let die".
Where did you get your figures? When it opened on the 25th, the win8 appstore had 7873 apps. Not 150k.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:53 PM   #180
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Where did you get your figures? When it opened on the 25th, the win8 appstore had 7873 apps. Not 150k.
There was a report I saw last week on ZDNET (or maybe CNET) that quoted the Windows Store at 147000 apps. It may be that the long list is Intel apps and only the 7800 are ARM compatible.
(shrug)

But the point remains either way, no?
The appeal of the device doesn't seem to hinge on the size of the appstore, just as it doesn't seem to be suffering from the relatively modest resolution of the screen. And just as most android buyers don't seem particularly dis-satisfied with their options.

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